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July 01, 2008

Mitten Thumb Pattern Decoded!

mittens-done.jpg
I have mittens!!

These are the Super Mittens from the book Weekend Knitting. These mittens are knit with Paton's Rumor yarn in Duberry Heather (code name for "pink") and I needed one and a half skeins of yarn to complete two mittens. I used size 10.5 double-pointed needles and then at the very end of the mitten, when decreasing, I switched to smaller size 9 double-pointed needles. Same when decreasing the thumb. It made a nice smooth decrease.

These mittens probably took me about three or more hours for each one, but I am a slow knitter. Also, when making the gusset and starting the thumb stitches be sure you are in a place you can sit still and do it all at one time with no interruptions.

It's not super comfortable to cast on and knit that first row in the round but it gets easier as you have more fabric on the needles. If you can stand the awkwardness for a few rows it does get better! Ah, there are so many things in life that get better after some initial awkwardness....

Let's get to the thumb!


Super Mittens from the book Weekend Knitting

Even if you aren't making mittens from that specific pattern, hopefully this little explanation will help with thumbing. (Thumbing is totally legal in knitting!) So, when you get to making the thumb here is what you will have:

thumb-stitch-holder.jpg

A mitten body and a hole where the thumb should go and a bunch of stitches on a stitch holder. Since I made this pattern in the next-to-largest size, I have 11 thumb stitches sitting on a stitch holder.

But the truth is, this method works no matter how many stitches your pattern uses. You're going to have some amount of stitches set aside to make a thumb. Those stitches will either be on a stitch holder or knit onto some scrap yarn, and you have this gaping hole. You need to find a way to connect all the stitches, make a few stitches to cover up the hole and knit in the round. That is your mission, should you choose to accept it!

Step one: Carefully slide half your stitches onto a double-pointed needle, then slide the other half onto another DPN. (See, I can use abbreviations, too!)

Since I have an uneven number of stitches, I put six stitches on one needle and five on the other.

thumb-divide-stitches.jpg


Step two: Now you have the stitches on needles but there's no way to knit them unless you have some yarn! Adding yarn like this isn't really that hard. Just take the tail end of your yarn and drop it down into the hole that's about to become a thumb. I pulled enough yarn down inside the mitten so I could hold it pretty firmly in my left hand as I knit my first stitch. If you're worried about your first stitch being loose, you can always come back on the next round and tighten it up good. You will not go to mitten jail if your stitches aren't perfect!

thumb-join-yarn.jpg


Step three: Now start knitting. I have my mitten body on the right and my mitten thumb stitches on the left like so:

thumb-start-knitting.jpg
With a third double-pointed needle, insert the tip of the new needle into the first stitch between the mitten body and the thumb and begin knitting.

Just knit it right up! Knit all the stitches (I had 11 stitches to knit up.)

thumb-keep-knitting.jpg

But see how I still have this big hole where the thumb joins the mitten:

thumb-open-edge.jpg


Step four: Pick up stitches
This is the goofy fun part -- you're going to make stitches where none exist!! They call this "picking up stitches" or sometimes it's called "pick up and knit." I consulted my knitting guru, Stitch 'N Bitch: The Knitter's Handbook, for a full explanation. The author says that pick up stitches and pick up and knit both mean the same thing. But of course in knitting, as in life, ask four people and they'll all be experts with four different answers.

So all I can tell you is that for this thumb, you just make some loops where none existed and then on the next round you knit them as normal ol' stitches.

To begin, put a needle under a stitch on that open edge, wrapping yarn around the tip of the needle and drawing it through to make a loop on the needle (which you will then knit next time around). There is a great photo illustration at knitty.com and a video of this technique at KnittingHelp.com. And if the pictures and my yammering and the video still aren't enough, just try it yourself. I always learn best by doing it myself, anyway.

Ok, back to the pattern. It calls for three stitches to be picked up in this whole long area:

thumb-big-hole.jpg

But I picked up five stitches. If I only made three stitches for this wide of an area there would be holes and my mittens are not meant to be holy! I will be picking up 5 stitches and then on the next round I'll do a fancypants "knit two stitches together" stealth move ... twice. That will decrease me back to the required number of stitches so I don't have a fat thumb on my mitten.

That means: My pattern wants me to have 14 stitches to knit in the round for my thumb to be a good size.

I have 11 stitches on the stitch holder (and now on my double-pointed needles).

I have to pick up three stitches in the gap area, 11 + 3 = 14 total stitches.

But three stitches isn't enough to cover a whole big long gap! So I am picking up five stitches. 11 + 5 = too many! So I will fix it on the next round by decreasing two times. All is well in mittenworld.

So to pick up stitches, take an empty double-pointed needle and stick it under a stitch on that open edge, wrap the yarn around the tip of the needle pretty much like you would if knitting, and pull it though. Your goal is to get a loop on a DPN just like it was a normal old stitch:

thumb-pickup1.jpg

By the way it is really challenging to take pictures of yourself knitting. I am just saying.

thumb-pickup2.jpg

Do this until you have five loops on your needle:

thumb-pickup5.jpg

YOU DID IT!!!!! Pat yourself on the back! Place a marker on your thumb stitches to designate that you, rockstar thumb knitter, are beginning to knit in rounds for the big thumb finale. I always place my marker between two stitches so it doesn't fall off:


thumb-marker.jpg


Step five: Knit in the round
Now remember, on this very first round as you make your thumb, you will need to:

1) Tighten up your very first stitch (where you added the yarn at the start of this novel.) Just check it out so nothing weird is going on there, and ..

2) On the stitches we picked up don't forget to knit two together (twice!) so you decrease those five stitches down to three stitches. It keeps your stitch count right but prevents any icky holes.

Knit until your thumb measures the desired length. I definitely think it's a good idea to switch to smaller size double-pointed needles when decreasing at the tips of both the mitten body and the thumb, just like the pattern says. I switched to size 9 double-pointed needles on my decrease rows and my decreases are nice and round and pretty. Switching to a smaller needle makes your stitches smaller and more compact and the tips of the thumb and mitten taper real nice.

Step six: Wear mittens in middle of summer, making people think you are crazy. Dream of frosty, cold places to go on vacation and wear your fabulous hand-knit mittens.

Posted by laurie at July 1, 2008 08:03 AM

Comments

How incredibly helpful! My knitting up to now has been "in-the-flat"--blankets, scarves, and scarves. Time to try mittens!

You're the best.

Posted by: Pam at July 1, 2008 07:57 AM

Holy Crap that was a lot of reading for this time of the morning! Sadly I still only knit scarves. Miss you - hope things are going well for you. Tell the 'rents I said Hi! Love - C who is melting in this freaking Florida weather

Posted by: Crystal at July 1, 2008 07:58 AM

thanks you so much for taking the mystery out of making a thumb. it is very helpful. very appreciated. i just read on someone's blog ( sorry I can't give correct credit to this person) but mittens are the new sock craze. so you are right in vogue!

Posted by: laurie d at July 1, 2008 08:02 AM

Hello Aunt Purl!

I just love your knitting tutorials, because you assume you're talking to a novice (like me!) and make it easy! Thanks! Love the book, and the cat pictures...

Posted by: Kere at July 1, 2008 08:07 AM

I could have used these mittens this morning on my walk. It was 38 degrees . . .

I love the look of them but I'm afraid I'm a crochet-er more than a knit-er.

Posted by: Jill S. at July 1, 2008 08:11 AM

You are a genius! (But I truly am wondering WHEN you would ever wear such nice, warm mittens ... maybe on a European excursion?)

Posted by: scotty at July 1, 2008 08:12 AM

Ohh! Thanks! I just started a pair of mittens for my daughter (to go with her CAP roll brim hat, of course.) - and the thumb thing had me totally freaked out.

Posted by: Amanda at July 1, 2008 08:16 AM

Alas! Three-D knitting has eluded me and I continue to knit in two-D. Your tutorial almost makes me think I could do it! You explain things really well, pictures included. Now you need a scarf and hat in the same yarn. Have a good week!!!

Posted by: Jena at July 1, 2008 08:16 AM

That was a really helpful explanation.

I was wondering who was taking those awesome pictures. Now you will need to do a photo tutorial on doing your own photo tutorial.

Posted by: Kel at July 1, 2008 08:25 AM

And sorry if I sounded bossy telling you what you should do. I really just meant it in a complimentary way- you did a great job with the photo tutorial.

Posted by: Kel at July 1, 2008 08:27 AM

Thank you so much for that explanation! I went shopping in an actual "fiber store" yesterday to pick out my yarn for my mittens. I had never ever been to a place like that before (I've always done Hobby Lobby,Joanns, and Michaels)and Oh My God, I was in heaven! I can't wait to start my mittens, and your tutorial really helped!

Posted by: Rachael at July 1, 2008 08:30 AM

What beautiful mittens! You are so good at photo tutorials for knitting! Thank you so much and this will help keep my next pair of mittens from taking a swim in the frog pond!

Posted by: Liz R at July 1, 2008 08:31 AM

Thanks for this explination! I want to knit mittens but the thumb scared me....I'm going to try it as soon as I get the shoe size right on the hat I'm knitting :)

Posted by: Colleen in NY at July 1, 2008 08:35 AM

Very impressive...mittens are right up there with socks in my mind: kind of scary and complicated-looking, but I reason with myself that far too many people are able to knit them, so they can't be THAT hard. One of these days!

Posted by: christa at July 1, 2008 08:44 AM

Bloody brilliant! I always pick up more stitches than called for too (as I also do on socks when rejoining the short-row heel to the sock) and then decrease them. Now you see 'em, now you don't.

Since you've already done a great mitten tutorial there's less need for me to, but I might anyway, just the way everyone has her own brownie recipe, and it may be nearly the same as all the other eleventy-billion recipes, but it's *hers darnit*.

And I have another idea as well...

Posted by: Lucia at July 1, 2008 08:48 AM

I think it may be time for Puppy Mittens? No thumbs, but lots and lots of toes!

Posted by: quinn at July 1, 2008 08:52 AM

It's amazing how many different kinds of "smart" there are in the world. Me? I can read complicated contracts, decipher the tax code, and do complicated math with no problem. But I read this post today and realized that I am in the presence of a much brighter mind...all the technical talk and so many needles and I am not spacial so I still don't understand how it all comes together in the end...wow. Anyhoo, you are truly brilliant in the knitting world...it is VERY impressive! And the mittens are beautiful, to boot!

Posted by: aileen at July 1, 2008 09:00 AM

I'm also scared of mittens. Yours are really cute!

Posted by: Melissa at July 1, 2008 09:02 AM

That was great! I love the idea of picking up the number of stitches that will fill the space without holes, then decreasing, you genius! Mittens are one of the next goals of mine, so thanks...I've been learning to knit socks, but the thumb of a mitten or the fingers of gloves has always looked intimidating. You are great at bringing it to a level I can relate to. Just finished your book (ordered via your link on your blog) and you crack me up...i needed that!

Posted by: karen at July 1, 2008 09:19 AM

Wow! Just wow! That must've taken a lot of time and effort to photograph and write up. I'm very much a beginner knitter and mittens are a ways away for me, but I will certainly come back to this post for help. Thank you so much for doing this post!

Posted by: Annie at July 1, 2008 09:27 AM

The mittens came out great! You just whipped those bad boys out.

They would be perfect for a cold New England day!

Posted by: Sarah at July 1, 2008 09:28 AM

Those are some beautiful mittens! You always manage to find the most beautiful yarns!

They look like either mitten could go on either hand, so, if you're like me and lose things, you could buy a little extra yarn and make a third mitten so you still have a pair when you lose one.

That's the way I do mitts to go under mittens. Mitts are fingerless mittens that you can wear under mittens. Then, when you need to count change or actually use your fingers, you can pull off the mittens and still have your hand partially covered while regaining the use of your fingers.

See a photo of mitts here: http://lostarts.easystorecreator.com/items/knitting-patterns/long-short-and-easy-mitts-mit-detail.htm

Posted by: Johann Mitchell at July 1, 2008 09:49 AM

beautiful! i love those tutorials. i am another step closer to trying to knit.

Posted by: TS at July 1, 2008 09:52 AM

Excellent tutorial. Sometimes the best teacher is someone who has just figured it out herself -- she knows all the pitfalls and never assumes her students "already know that."

Posted by: kmkat at July 1, 2008 09:54 AM

Oh, I nearly forgot.

When you cast on the stitches that eventually are at the top of the hole for the thumb stitches, if you make a provisional cast-on, you can unravel the waste yarn and pick up the stitches instead of casting them on.

This is not only easier (in my opinion), but it also makes that area smoother. Casting on stitches and then picking up and knit will leave a slight ridge (look at the inside of the mittens). Making a provisional cast on and then picking them up will give you stitches that go in two directions with no join at all.

Posted by: Johann Mitchell at July 1, 2008 09:54 AM

Thank you for giving us permission to pick up more than called for, and then decreasing. I always have to pick up more, and I feel like I am somehow cheating. Who, I have no idea! So thanks.

Posted by: suetreiber at July 1, 2008 10:07 AM

I made these exact mittens last winter (only different cheapy yarn) and have gaping holes at the base of the thumbs. Thank you for the solution. I can't wait to try another pair after I finish knitting cupcakes (another fun, easy, "in the round" project) for friends' birthdays.

Posted by: Jodi at July 1, 2008 10:12 AM

Hear that snapping and crackling? Nope, I'm not making popcorn, I'm doing curtseys in your direction. (OW!) Wait -- I'm just going to bow low from the waist in your direction. That's just a kinda hollow *pop*.....all of this by way of saying OH YEAH!! I am So printing that whole thing out because it's the next best thing to having you sit here and watching me and preventing screw-ups. Blessings on you, my dear! (Also - Happy Canada Day! I know you're not Canadian, me either, but I'm all for celebrating any ol' thing, and Canadians knit a lot!)

Posted by: dale-harriet in WI at July 1, 2008 10:29 AM

I didn't know about mitten jail!

Posted by: cursingmama at July 1, 2008 10:31 AM

Woot! Thumbs! If I ever graduate to mittens (I'm still stuck on hats), I'll come back to this post. Tanks!

Posted by: Marilyn at July 1, 2008 10:41 AM

OMG I could fly to the moon easier than ever in a 100 years figure out what in the world you are talking about. Honestly! I am not a dumb person but knitting just about blows my mind....

Posted by: Cindy at July 1, 2008 10:49 AM

Your mittens look great! I have made these mittens too, also in pink.

If you workplace is as wastefully air conditioned as mine, perhaps you can get some use out of them this summer :)

Posted by: threegoodrats at July 1, 2008 11:37 AM

The picking up extra and decreasing is a great idea to close the holes.

I have found that using a crochet hook to pick up stitches really helps - especially if having to pick up a bunch - just pull them through and put on your needle - just check them before knitting them when you come to them to be sure they are not twisted.

Posted by: Nancie at July 1, 2008 11:43 AM

Thanks for the easy instructions! I checked this book out of the library yesterday, hoping you would have the thumbing written up soon!

Posted by: Kit at July 1, 2008 11:55 AM

Dear Crazy Aunt Purl, those mittens will be perfect when you take your next vacation in Finland. Or Alaska. Or Tibet. You are a wise woman to plan ahead. And the color is perfect for being spotted in a white environment. Very clever.

Posted by: Orghlaith at July 1, 2008 12:40 PM

You crack me up - Again! I love your mitten instructions. How about a knit along - maybe a light cotton sweater for summer??? You could definitely remove the mystery and provide clarity. You have a gift.

Posted by: Jane at July 1, 2008 12:40 PM

I knit mittens for years but was too scared to try socks until I realized that socks have NO THUMBS! I haven't made a pair of whole mittens since (unless you count the fingerless kind). Your mittens make me want to knit them again. Great job!

Posted by: mzmouze at July 1, 2008 12:46 PM

I enjoyed reading the mitten instructions even tho I have no intention of venturing out of my rectangular world of knitting just yet. :-)

Posted by: Nancy Knits at July 1, 2008 01:09 PM

OK. I'm going to try these for my family who live up in the cold. I'm going to print out your pictures and just do what it says. Thank you so very much - it is incredibly clear!

Posted by: cecelia at July 1, 2008 01:12 PM

Thank you sooooo much for your fun explanation of knitting the thumb on a mitten! After reading your first post about knitting mittens, I thought, "well, I'm going to try something new" and the next thing I knew I was knitting mittens. I did not have the same pattern (or book you found your mittens in) so I searched my knitting books and found "Easy Mittens" in ONE SKEIN WONDER. Saturday night I had knitted everything on one mitten except that thumb! So...I searched again amongst all my knitting books and sort've figured out how to knit the thumb. You inspired me to knit mittens! I can knit mittens! I just read your explanation of knitting the thumb and I like your way better so the next pair I'll be using your explanation. Thank you, thank you! :-)

Posted by: Gail at July 1, 2008 01:40 PM

Since I don't knit, this was amusing to read...a friend in MN once knitted me mittens with a design of a snowflake on the back hand (as it were)...this more than intimidated me into never, ever wanting to knit...she also went to summer knitting camp in WI!! Jeez, to each her own; but, for me, that would be like going to camp & having knitting needles bored thru my eyes!! Now cooking camp would be a whole other story...I do love those cat/brother puppy photos though, and your commentary abt. everything non-knitting.

Hope your week goes well...after all, it ends with a holiday off!!

Posted by: gypsybaker at July 1, 2008 06:32 PM

You should just put on those mittens and do a crazy dance for the cats. They are simply fabulous. Now, you should think about trying socks, they are WAY easier than mittens, and if you're like me after giving away about 5 pairs you'll figure out how to make them to fit yourself :)

Posted by: sally at July 1, 2008 06:40 PM

I was starting to feel all fetally and all with all the stitches and wooden needles and having the mitten's hole all exposed and all. But, it is better now and I think kmkat is one to something with the cast on. However, I'l just make another muffler with some not so cool yarn....I do like the muffler made with not so cool yarn, but it is variegated and very soft.
I get my mittens...well, I don't wear mittens, but have heard they are neat....I'll get my gloves at khols or something.

Posted by: AmberStar at July 1, 2008 07:03 PM

Come to Canada! Bring your mitts!
(Today is Canada Day -- it is NOT cold, but mitts can come in handy for the holding of the Canada Day Beer. I'm just saying.)

Posted by: Julie at July 1, 2008 07:05 PM

Thanks for the excellent mitten how-to...I give it two thumbs up! teehee (Sorry, but someone had to say it!)

Posted by: BigDPeggy at July 1, 2008 07:26 PM

The mittens look great and your thumb tutorial is excellent!

Posted by: Karen at July 1, 2008 08:20 PM

HOLY MITTENS, BATMAN!

i apologize... it just snuck up on me.

they are lovely, hole-free mittens! congratulations! ^_^

Posted by: stephanie at July 2, 2008 01:27 AM

While I haven't made these exact mittens, I've made many others. Usually, when I restart my yarn for the thumb or whatever, I make a slip knot and use that as my first stitch. For some reason, it makes me feel safer!
Wow, it feels very wierd giving you "advice". The first pattern I ever did besides a garter stitch scarf was your hat recipe, and I just wanted to say thank-you. It really spurred me into the wonderful world of knitting!
Michelle

Posted by: Michelle at July 2, 2008 04:58 AM

Wow! Thank you so much for this...haven't even read it through yet (as I'm surreptitiously trolling at work), but I have that book and am jazzed to try that pattern now thanks to you!

Posted by: Melanie J. at July 2, 2008 05:52 AM

Love the step-by-step! The mittens are great.

Posted by: Kari at July 2, 2008 07:56 AM

Michelle -- you couldn't use a slip knot here as the first stitch since the first stitch already exists (it's on a stitch holder, then you put it on the DPN.) You could probably attach the yarn inside the mitten somewhere but a long tail does the trick just as well. I am a little neurotic about weaving in ends VERY well, so I don't usually worry about things coming unraveled later.

Posted by: Laurie at July 2, 2008 09:16 AM

May I make a suggestion about the awkwardness when
you first start knitting in the round? Knit 2 rows "straight" without connecting to knit in the round. Then connect and start knitting in the round. It makes it much easier than trying to connect it when it twists around etc. Then, when you're finished the mitten, (or the cuff of a sock, or whatever) then sew the tiny gap. Takes all the anguish out of those first few rows of knitting in the round. Marlyce in Windsor, Ontario

Posted by: Marlyce at July 2, 2008 10:40 AM

I am so impressed. I tried to crochet mittens back when I was first learning how to crochet more than just hair ties and pony tail holders.

It was the thumbs that got me. I still havent crocheted a pair of mittens yet. Maybe now that I can knit too, I'll attempt knitting some mittens.

I can crochet sweaters, and actually mastered the art of sleeves (sorta) so maybe learning to knit some mittens and making thumbs might not be as difficult.

Posted by: ErinLindsey at July 2, 2008 11:54 AM

I love step 6 because I was thinking to myself that I would not have thought to knit mittens in June/July! But we are all a little crazy aren't we.

Posted by: Sarah at July 2, 2008 01:06 PM

Laurie - I love your wordy knitting instructions. Their clarity makes up for their length. :)

Posted by: Laiane at July 2, 2008 01:30 PM

Thanks for the clear images and text boxes. I've been knitting socks and mittens, both requiring picked up stitches, and never realized I was "doing it wrong" all this time. Instead of catching and pulling through yarn, I've always just picked up loops off the existing edge and put that on the needle. No wonder it looked funny.

Posted by: Jen Sirois at July 2, 2008 03:04 PM

you will need your mittens for your trip to yosemite.

now plan a trip to yosemite. and go. and don't forget to pack your mittens.

Posted by: mary at July 2, 2008 05:00 PM

Why on earth do you live in L.A.? You will never need these beautiful mittens. I can imagine you in Alaska, Norway or Island, or the northern states of the US.
Ever thought about sitting by the fireplace in deep winter knitting, some cats around you?

Paula
shaking of the head

Posted by: Paula at July 2, 2008 06:44 PM

Oh Laurie thank you so much! I've made several mittens and all of the thumbs sucked the big one. I'm all excited to try again. Yay you and your wonderful tutorials!

Posted by: Susan at July 2, 2008 07:39 PM

You weren't kidding about the Rumors shedding,eh? I was just at Michael's ruminating about yarns for prayer shawls and spent a few minutes with some Rumors--I loved the color but the shedding was a tad much.

Thanks for the mitten tutorial!

Posted by: Emily at July 3, 2008 08:42 AM

Hi Laurie,
I picked up your book at the library on the appeal of the title alone & laughed my butt off. Then I started exploring the blog & am amazed at how you keep up the quality and quantity while managing to hold down a job and a jam-packed personal life - way to go!
I am writing to let you know how impressed I am with your photos. The ones you included with the July 1st mitten tutorial were just great. I've been a working photographer for almost 30 years & I would be hard pressed to do a better job showing the process of creating a mitten. And, as you have probably heard hundreds of times before - MoreCatPitchursPleeze! Your fuzzy little wookies are cute as all get out & you do a great job capturing them in all their kitty felineicity. Don't Stop.

Posted by: Duane at July 3, 2008 02:54 PM

Awesome! You always break things down into much simpler explanations and I appreciate that!

Posted by: Cindi at July 3, 2008 06:58 PM

Super tutorial. You explained the "pick up an extra stitch in the gap" instruction found in so many mitten thumb patterns so intuitively and with so much more clarity than usually found.

A point of clarification - picking up and knitting really isn't the same as just picking up. The former is exactly what you describe; the latter is what Jen Sirois describes in her comment. When you just pick up stitches, you just slip the needle under an existing thread and leave it on the needle as a new stitch. True, you usually end up knitting these stitches at some later point, in which case the end result is the same, but not always.

Posted by: twinsetellen at July 3, 2008 08:38 PM

WOW! You knit mittens!! I am impressed!

I'm working on a sock but a sock on DPNs isn't quite as daunting as a mitten with thumbs. I will have to try that next.

Posted by: otherLisa at July 4, 2008 06:53 AM

Great tutorial, Laurie, and lovely finished product! Especially the part about picking up stitches. Even lots of beginner's instructions don't tell you how to do this. I remember sitting with my 1st sock, staring at the sides of the stitches instead of the tops, and thinking "HUH???"

twinsetellen, now I'm confused again about picking up stitches; when I tried doing the existing stitches on my sock gusset, it did NOT work! Definitely supposed to be a pull-a-new-loop-through situation. Unfortunately, there's no firmly standardized knitting terminology, I guess.

Nancie, I'm SO glad I'm not the only one who "cheats" and uses the crochet hook to pick up stitches. For me, doing it with the needle tip is like trying to eat spaghetti with chopsticks - I could die before I finished! As long as we do it in the privacy of our own homes, so we won't offend the Knitting Police.

I also was trying to do a Cable Cast-On last nite, and it wasn't working (had 2 strands of yarn working), so I did the Long-Tail. Later I went back to the instructions, and a tip there said that a crochet hook used in the right hand, instead of a needle, makes the Cable CO a lot easier. Next time, I guess...

Posted by: boomette at July 8, 2008 07:27 PM