"And am I being old-fashioned, antiquated, ridiculous?" ANSWER: NO, NO, and NO.

Sometimes I think that manners and decency have just flown out the window...and I am not sure I buy that "public property, do whatever you want" line, but no doubt one or more of your readers will be able to address that.

Also, I am very sympathetic to your photo woes. My passport expires in 2008 and I am already dreading the picture taking process. I already know that I will look enormous in the photo with 75 chins, no matter how I pose myself!

Ok, for disclosure's sake, I'm a hospital librarian but I have friends who work at the public library in town. It's all about the particular library policy. Some have filters that block hard core porn, some that block everything deemed "offensive" including things like the Breast Cancer Awareness sites. And the librarians who work at my PL are allowed to say "turn that off or you're out of here." It sounds like your PL doesn't have that kind of policy, which surprises me.

For the record, my hospital library blocks just about everything thanks to a resident a few years ago who had a thing for porn. Ugh.

Call Arnold and everyone in line below him. Write a letter and save it as a template so you can send it to the Dean every Friday (OK, I learned that one from my mineralogy professor, but still, one letter is never enough). The key is DELUGE of complaining.

Frankly, I would have thought that the library would have porn sites blocked. It's not unreasonable, I think. Or couldn't the librarian steer them to a more secluded terminal? I can see it now, "Good afternoon, sir, wanking or non-wanking?"

And seeing how you're going to have it for 10 years, I think you should be happy with your passport picture. They obviously have issues with their printers.

Honestly I'm surprised it wasn't blocked. And I'm sure that it is within the librarians' rights to tell them to search out porn on their own computers.

And I am all for free speech, but it is within constitutional boundaries to have certain things blocked from public view. Which is why there are things like zoning laws and public decency regulations. I would write a letter to whoever runs the library there. And then maybe a congressman. Naked vaginas. Boo. Also, creepy.

Ah, Sue, I like how you think.

"Wanking or non-wanking...?" hehehehehehehee

Since 9/11 even us Canadians have to have no smile, no makeup, no expression of any kind. So now we all DEFINITELY look like terrorists.

True, you can't smile-smile in your picture, but you CAN smirk.
I semi-smiled, and I look like I'm about to burst out laughing at an inappropriate time in my passport photo. I'm pleased.

AHA. So smirking is allowed? I wonder how I would look with a smirk? Can I smirk...?

This no-smiling thing is just crazypants.

Can't they position the monitors so they face a wall or block the view? There has to be a better way people. He probably gets his kick by shocking others.

And I still don't understand porn.
How many times do you need to see it to know what it is?
Doesn't it ever get old?
I know mine is getting grey.

Oh no - I'm going to have to practice showing emotion with my eyes before I have my passport photos taken! I'm going to watch old episodes of "America's Next Top Model" so I can get tips from Tyra!!!

it is just so sad and freakish that Mr. Porn would go to the library to see some flesh shots. Porn seems to have a place in this world, and yes, I also think that it should be behind closed doors. I don't believe in censorship but also don't want to stroll through my library and into a extra large crotch shot. gross.

My d.l., good until 2011, I look like a chimp. oh joy.

I work at a church library, no porn here I tell ya what! Glitter poo, well that's another story.

Oh yeah, and "Call Arnold"? I can just hear it now. "Clear my schedule for this afternoon, Mary, and hand me a box of Kleenex. I'm going to the library."

Our rinky-dink small town PL has an internet policy which clearly says that there is no way that they can monitor and control internet usage, and therefore have installed various filters on the computers in the childrens and main areas.
........

I vote for a loud and disgusted "EWW! GROSS!" as you walk by the offending user.
........

My last passport photo has a smile. When I get to the next one I'll just smirk - no teeth showing (which is too close to the truth but that is beside the point), just a twinkle. Heck, it doesn't look remotely like me anyway (I tell myself) so why not? Did you know that you can use your own digital photo for your passport? I think I read that somewhere...

Is it seriously a rule that you can't smile in a passport photo???

I have witnessed Car Porn quite a few times. Men driving down the streets with those little TV screens in their car, watching porn. Wouldn't that be distracting??? I had the exact same reaction as you did to Library Porn.

And also - membership club photos are equally as bad. Why does the person taking them always tell you it's "lovely" as she hands it to you? Darn liars.

I work in a library, and as far as I know you can indeed tell people that they can't view inappropriate content in full view of the public. I don't know if you can (and I don't think you should) block the sites b/c it's impossible to just block P*rn w/o blocking legitimate sites.

That librarian is full of bs. Ask to see the library's internet policy. Most library internet policies are full of statements about offensive viewing. And most librarians will gladly throw someone out who is so boldly viewing porn. Arnold won't be of much help, go to the library board and library director with complaints.

You're absolutely allowed to smile in the picture, they were wrong. I think looking like a psycho in your picture is better though, they only stop normal looking people!

I don't know if the dirty old man in public is necessarily a new thing. Looking at this stuff in public may have been part of what was getting him off. But I completely agree with you. It is disgusting and really insulting. And no kidlets should have to see that.

Those sites often are riddled with viruses and spyware, etc. So it is likely that the next person on the system will get deluged with dirty pop ups. I think that justifies a policy right there.

Emily -- I called the passport office. No smiling, they said it interferes with biometric blah blah blah with terrorism.

Porn at library? YUCK. I think they have the right to block/filter sites so perhaps talk to the head librarian and see if something can be done- that's unacceptable especially around kids!

Also, I had my passport renewed in May and I smiled for the photo. I heard (after the fact) that you weren't suppose to smile but mine still went through ok, so smile and forget the silly rule :)

So sorry you had to be exposed to this Laurie. I agree, it's something that should be done in one's own home - not in any sort of public place. I am a librarian in a small town, and I'll tell you that (a) most of the filters available block WORDS not pictures (b) maintaining a list of blocked sites would take many hours of staff time a week (though our school district got around this by blocking everything that didn't have a .gov or .edu - a bit of overkill in the other direction) and (c) we have all of our monitors in plain view and when staff or patrons complain we shut off the offending user and invite him to leave the library and revoke his (since it is usually a him) privileges to use our public computers. We have an Internet Use Policy clearly posted by all of our computers which specifically bans viewing of porn sites. We also have software that requires people to sign in on the computer which allows us then to ban offender's accounts. And before you ask, it absolutely does not track which websites a user goes to. It's main purpose is to limit the amount of time a user has and to manage printing.

And as for the DL and passport photos - my own mother would not recognize me in mine! I too need to renew my passport, and will be seeking a photo that at least looks like me! :)

Just like everyone else says, it depends on the library, but generally (unless the person is a sex offender) there isn't much that can be done (and even if he IS a sex offender, there isn't always something that can be done). Some libraries have filters, but that opens them to accusations of censorship (which is basically THE ethics issue in library science at the moment). On the one hand, you don't want people looking at porn. On the other hand, there will be people who argue that if you block porn, you should also block anything that is considered offensive (like gay and lesbian materials). I'm not comparing the two (they are very different in my view), but to a lot of people, it isn't different. Basically, it sucks because blocking anything in a public place that receives public funding opens a pandora's box of issues. (That being said, porn in a library is creepy. As someone who has been stuck in an internet cafe with someone looking at bondage porn, it's a VERY uncomfortable situation.)

Also, if it makes you feel better, I look like a stuffed moose in my passport photo. Luckily, stuffed moose is preferable to terrorist, and the Russians at least don't think I'm dangerous.

Certainly, in my public library (and university library too) there are DEFINITELY rules about acceptable use - it covers not only pornography, but (for example) sites which promote racial hatred. I can't believe that your library wouldn't have such rules. Then again, I'm in the UK, and we're less litigious, no one is likely to sue if he can't get his jollies...

I believe that the non smiling rule for passport photos is to facilitate biometric recognition, and is compulsory ... I can't wear my glasses for my picture either, as the glare will obscure my eyes. Thing is, if Superman's disguise of donning specs was so effective, surely I'll confuse the people at passport control if I'm wearing mine? Let's face it, I wouldn't see the plane if I wasn't...

"I work at a church library, no porn here I tell ya what!- jeanpeace" Alas, if only that was always a deterrent to pervacious behavior. Remember, they caught the "BTK" serial killer a couple of years back by tracking him to his worksite's church-owned computer, boy was THAT congregation surprised.
Since federal and state government employees get fired if they porn-surf on publicly owned computers, how can libraries allow it to take place?

Laurie, I so totally agree. Not only is it beyond rude and disgusting (why it's not blocked I have no idea), I am totally at a loss as to why anyone wants to see it! Seen one, seen em all. It's gotta be a testosterone thing. Ick.

Re: p0rn at the library...You'd think that people would prefer to view that in the privacy of their own homes, but some apparently get off hoping that someone will notice what they're looking at. I've worked or volunteered in several library systems in different states. Not one of them allows patrons to view porn. At the last one, the computers were not filtered, but the policy was clear, and people were kicked out for viewing that stuff. (One patron left up a video of some "hot" action b/c he thought the next person might want to view it. Niiiice.) A lot of libraries do seem to have issues with filters, b/c they do block a lot of legit sites, but there's usually some sort of a review process whereby you can get the library to unblock those.

You can try complaining to the library director, and to the library board. If nothing else, they could shell out for special computer desks. The computer sits inside at an angle, and there's a tinted plexiglass top for viewing. Whatever's on the screen is not easily viewed to passersby. (I've seen one library system that uses those for their unfiltered computers.)

I think you should take pictures of the man (lots of pictures from every angle, be conspicuous with flash and everything, because it's a public place after all, so you can take any pictures you like) looking at porn in the library, perhaps with a few kids walking by, and send the photos to your state and local representatives and along with a letter to the editor of the newspaper.

EXCELLENT idea, go Marilyn!

Marilyn Rocks!!!!

I work in a library, am studying to be a librarian, and have had to ask more than person to leave the technology room because they were looking at porn (and masturbating.....) There's a very fine line between filtering inappropriate sites and being accused of monitoring the public's access... and unfortunately taking either side can result in voters denying money to the library during elections. It's a no win situation, and all you can do is complain to a librarian when you see something like that.

My CA driver's license picture is the BEST picture ever taken of me. Don't get jealous, though; regular pictures of me are always horrible. The thing is, one does not go posting one's DL picture on dating sites, because wouldn't that be weird? It's not like I can frame it or anything!

I think the only thing that I've heard recently that could tie that in inappropriateness is people watching um, "adult" films on portable DVD players on planes.

Can you imagine being stuck on a flight next to someone watching that stuff?

I love the idea of taking his picture while the pron is on the monitor and publishing it everywhere you can get coverage. That should stop him as well as the wimp at the library that won't take action for decency. I am ready to go to the desert island with just my knitting to get away from all the crazy people that won't stand up for whats right.........
Aunt Gerry

I agree with Marilyn! Also, don't forget to post those pictures to the innernets too -- just blur out the naked parts, and post along with the full story. Maybe the guy's wife will see them...

The "porn at the library" issue is one that every librarian has to deal with, it's incredibly common across the country. Check out this amusing little cartoon succintly summing up the issue. http://community.livejournal.com/library_mofo/657155.html

Marilyn:

You expressed my thoughts exactly! Just stand there and take picture after picture of the guy and tell him they will be put all over the Internet. You could contact MSNBC or whoever it was that would set those on-camera stings for perverts (I forgot the name of the show). Maybe they'd be willing to show the photographs of these library stalker-pervs on a nation-wide program. In fact there must be some "shame" website where you can post pictures of bozos looking at porn. Kind of like the drunk driver websites. Although, maybe they'd get off on the notoriety. People don't seem to have a sense of shame anymore. Maybe that's what 's wrong with the world...

Also, Laurie, the next time you encounter pervs viewing porn in the library, gather as many passersby as you can, stand around him (doubt it would be a "her"), point at him and yell things like "Pervert", and such. Perhaps that would drive him out of the place, you know, kind of like the village folks in the old country with pitch forks and torches. But then, you'd have to be careful there were no children within earshot or eyeshot of the specatcle.

Well...good luck trying to learn another language sans porn!

I've been to libraries that have installed privacy screens on each monitor. Not that it really addresses the problem of having some creepy old dude look at porn at the library, but at least kidlets or whatever don't have to see it as they walk by.

I edit medical research papers (mostly clinical studies) for a living. Among the things I've reviewed are giant color pictures of an older lady with genital warts (an unusual sign of celiac disease), a wide-open shot of a teenage girl with vulvar and vaginal ulcers (caused by influenza infection), breasts before tumor discovery (they were yellow and purple with bruise-like marks), and so on. A casual onlooker might think I had a skin disease porn fetish!

(But the point I'm trying to make - yeah, in your case, that guy probably was just getting off, and that's wrong to do in public - but you might think the same of me if you saw me closely scrutinizing pictures of genitals.)

I'm like you, Laurie. I've got no problem with whatever you look at in your own home. But looking at the library is just nasty (but I guess that's what they want). My co-worker was with her daughter in the RARE BOOKS ROOM at the public library here, and her daughter saw a man doing the same thing. They got the guy kicked out, and she wrote a detailed complaint. There were 2 kids in there!

The librarians of Minneapolis won a lawsuit getting porn banned at their libraries. Their argument was that it created a hostile workplace.

And I don't even try to get decent government issued photos!

June, I can assure you I was not jumping to conclusions and he was not a medical professional.

I work at a public library in Michigan. The only reason we can ban patrons for viewing porn sites is because of a Michigan bylaw that states it is illegal to view pornographic material where children might view it. As icky as porn is, for an adult (18+) it is not illegal in any way, unless it involves children. So that man in the library looking at twats is not doing anything illegal, just like the man on the bus looking at Hustler is not doing anything illegal. I realize that this concept is not popular but the public library is just that: public. It is a building open to all the public and libraries have been sued for less. If there is not a law or ordinance to support the banning of pornographic sites, the library will not have a leg to stand on in court. There is a law library I know of that cannot get rid of a couple of porn viewers because their library does not allow children in, so they can't use the bylaw that the public libraries use. It sucks and it is disgusting but not illegal. Perhaps you can ask the library to request privacy screens or the computer monitors set into the desk so that only the user can see the content.

Disclosure: I'm a public librarian

A lot of people have pointed out the obvious: filters are difficult things and most libraries try not to filter as much as possible. That being said, there are usually acceptable use policies which point out what is considered reasonable use of public computers. The person you spoke with may very well have been told patrons are allowed to do whatever they want by the people above her-- I doubt she was lying or trying to blow you off. We're patrons and users too (we're there all day!) and are just as offended as you are when people are in pulling up gross images.

One place I worked at had a no filter policy but used privacy screens---so you had to be directly behind someone to see what they were using. Buying those or special desks costs money though (something libraries are often short of)--especially when patrons immediately would take the screens off and break them (which happened CONSTANTLY).

We did have a policy though against "causing a disturbance" and if someone was noted to be viewing something questionable which was brought to our attention by a patron, that could in some situations justify being a "disturbance."

One other sad point to make: that sketchy dude won't listen to the staff when gently reminded of appropriate behavior in front of small children and/or may assert (sometimes aggressively) that we're violating his rights.

Laughing in my workplace is frowned upon, which is why I am making sounds reminiscent of an asthmatic wombat as I contemplate "wanking or non-wanking."

Lots of libraries block pron. (That's not a typo, it's an attempt to keep the wankers off your blog, not that I suppose it will matter.) I am completely with you on this one. You didn't really expect anything else from a tenth-generation Yankee Puritan, did you?

(True story: I was once taken to a, um, clothing-optional resort by some friends of mine, T (female) and K (male), and K's friend R (male), who was on the rebound. To R's complete disgust I refused to shed my bathing suit.
R: Why did you come here if you were going to walk around like that?
Me: I was along for the ride.
R: Wouldn't you be more comfortable without all that spandex?
Me: I'm comfortable this way, thank you.
R: You're the only one with clothes on. You look silly. People probably think you're the last of the uptight Yankee Puritans.
Me: This is California, land of doing your own thing, right?
R: Exactly.
Me: My thing is being an uptight Yankee Puritan.
R:

This excessive modesty actually turned out to be a good move, as I got a very bad sunburn on my exposed surfaces. So when I got home:

Me: They took me to a nudist resort.
DH, no slouch himself in the YP department: I hope you kept something on.
Me: Yes, and I can prove it.)

As for official photos, I feel your pain. Except mine don't come out orange. How do you do that?

http://www.lapl.org/about/computer_policy.html

I found this about the policy which does state that they don't have internet filters, nor do they censor things that others might find offensive. Which I mostly agree with ('cause the things that some people find offensive & complain about can be a bit ridiculous) - but it is in poor taste to look at vaginas in public - unless he's studying for gynecological boards or something and just wanted a refresher course.

However, I'm still for more freedoms than less.

You know... I haven't been to a library in a long time, but (if I remember correctly), the public did not have access to adult porn books and magazines because the library didn't stock it. It seems a bit weird that you can't check out a hard core porn magazine, but you can sit in the library and view it on the screen. Strange.

Your post has given me the giggles (the last part not the first.....no porn in public!!!)! I'm sorry you didn't get a picture you liked.

Awful. I agree with what everyone is saying. Here at our public library they have two seperate areas of interenet use, kid friendly ones are in the childrens book section, away from the other computers, and users who may view those things. I'm very watchful when I take my three children there. I'm sure if they have "porn" policy or not....

maybe that guy needs to grow a "mangina" and go home and look at himself in a mirror all day. he'll get sick of it eventually! ;)

Illegal or not... the first thought in my mind is whether or not this creep is a convicted sexual predator. If so, he probably can't use a home computer....scary thought! The second thought in my mind is whether or not he is researching STDs.

I think ya'll are so sweet, giving him the benefit of the doubt. "Maybe he was researching STDs" or "studying for his medical exams." hehehehe

You really should visit the downtown public library if you are ever in Los Angeles. You will have quite an experience, I assure you.

heh.

also: I just had to close all the comments on other entries because I was all the sudden super-spammed, so apparently the word "vagina" brings the spammers out of the woodwork. We live in a strange world. I am very confused. Why is THAT still legal (spamming) and I cannot smile in my passport photo? Oh the humanity. LOL

Many porn viewers at our State Library and we just learned that librarians can file a complaint of sexual harrassment if they see something like that on the computer screen. If their supervisors don't ask the person to leave or view other content then the librarian can go to their union since the don't have to put up with exposure to such things at work. Also, the patron can be asked to leave the building if they don't stop viewing inappropriate material. Now if we could just get those librarians to complain more. 8)

Surely that's breaking some public decency laws. Surely.

Last time I was in L.A. I stayed in a Marriott that I think was very close to (maybe across the street from?) the downtown public library. Glad I resisted the urge to go inside.

When I worked at university library in college, we had a dirty old dude who was watching porn videos! It was an engineering library and students could check out class videos and watch them on tv/vcrs sets. And this old dude somehow stumbled upon it. My supervisor told me to call campus police if he came back while I was working. When he did, I did and he was arrested. The legality may have been different b/c it was a university library (so not open to the public) and he wasn't a student. But, it seems crazy that libraries can't block obvious porn!

hi! here is where I stand on my soapbox.

not everything should be made a law. you cannot, nor should you, regulate decency.

Personally, and I know this would NoT work for you Laurie, but personally, I would have tapped him on the shoulder and LOUDLY explained that while I thought that it was JUST FINE that he was a dirty old man looking at pictures of VAGINAS, however in a public library really isn't the appropriate place. Then I would probably cruise by about every 5 min and loudly make exactly the same statement over and over again. Because I find stuff like that fun and amusing.

I believe that you have to stand up for what you believe in and that there is a definite time and place for public ridicule.

Usually, I am more refined and polite but it has taken years of practice and mellowing on my part and well sometimes I just forget to be refined and polite. OOpsie!

Love you, at least in a few weeks you will be able to tell him what for in Japanese ;-)

Mary, the downtown library is a gorgeous building, I really love it. But they have a terrible problem with aggressive and crazy folks hanging out there, so there are sometimes ... incidents. The library has a beautiful courtyard, too, but it's hard to sit there and eat lunch with aggressive people hounding you. I had to pepper spray a guy once out there, he was trying to grab at me.

Uh, her argument is that they can't do anything about because it's public property (I almost just wrote 'pubic property' hee!)? Sooo, does that mean I can walk into a library or any other public property and lay on the floor and spread 'em, with my cooch hanging out, and they can't do anything about it? I don't think so. The fact that it's PUBLIC PROPERTY is the exact reason they CAN do something about it. If the guy was in his own house, aka PRIVATE PROPERTY, and had his blinds open while he was surfing next to the window, OK, I can see that argument, it's his property, he can do what he wants. The fact that it's public property means that he *cannot* do whatever he wants, right?? RIGHT??? This seems so crazy to me.

Call the library director and lodge your complaint. Desk staff usually can't do anything to change policy, but the head honcho can. The library I work at has filters, and we also have a policy against looking at porn on our computers. We very happily ban people from our computers if they violate the policy.

Dude, I so feel your pain on the passport photo. In Canada not only are you not allowed to smile, but you can't have any kind of shadow on your face, which is a big problem if you have say...HAIR.

Just FYI -- I took my husband's passport photo (applied in 2005) on my own digital camera. You can have a friend come over and snap away until you get a non-smiling shot that you like. I printed mine on my home computer and then cut to the right dimensions.

The Berkeley library has a bunch of rules posted as reasons for kicking someone out. Don't know if porn is on the list, but "extruding bad odors" is. I think it is because they'd have homeless people come inside and hang out all day and it offended other patrons.

No, it's not true. I work in a public library and it is in our policy that no one can view pornography on a public computer. They are immediately dismissed from the library for the day if they are caught. Repeated offenses will get them banned from using the internet. Unforunately, this kind of stuff happens a lot, but it is not acceptable, and you did the right thing by complaining. Your library needs to update their policy.

Hey, this is the first comment I've made, but I've been reading your blog for a little while now...love it! I also love cats (have one), knitting, and I take public trans downtown everyday to work probably very near you at a similar yet different financial institution, I'm in my mid-30's and single (never married, but suffered a couple of bad breakups that led to me to smoking in the middle of the night on my balcony), like to write and am from Oklahoma, so it's no surprise I can relate so well to the stuff you write about on your blog.

And I've put your book on hold at the library. Central Library downtown, a place I also like to go during my lunch hour. I have not had the pleasure of seeing the porn guy, but I have noticed the 'dirty old man' 'element' down there. I feel your pain! And yes, it is ridiculous that the general public is subjected to that at the public libary, and the fact that we still want to smile in our passport photos and then aren't allowed to...well, the absurdity of everything can either drive one mad or provide wonderful opportunities for humor. Reading your site is helping me to consistently choose the latter.

Okay, just wanted to say hi and Happy Holidays.

Boy am I naive (or stupid)! I thought porn was illegal, but even if it is not, I guess I just assumed that there was some control feature on public library computers that would not permit porn sites to be opened...it would appear that is not the case and I hate to think of myself as a censor, but...There SHOULD be a control feature on public computers that would not permit porn sites to be opened...sorry about the ranting :D

You have hit on the big fight in the public libraries. Most will NOT filter websites because it is the "slippery slope" to censorship. I, who do not believe in the "slippery slope", but who does believe in common sense, thinks the community should decide how/what to filter on the web.

Consequently, the only material that is "illegal" to view in most public (tax supported) libraries is kiddie porn, and that is illegal everywhere (thank goodness).

And here's something interesting. Some libraries will not even filter the web when computers with internet connections are in the children's book section. How sick is that? That dirty old man can sit right in the kids section in some libraries and drool away.

I'm thinking any place that kids are at should have a no porn policy. Public or not. He can go "browse" a porn shop for free too...it doesn't have to be the library.

How can they not let you smile in a passport photo? Come on!! Not even a smirk? A raised eyebrow?

Things are backwards I tell ya!

Porn pics:
At my second job, I work in one of the computer labs at my community collage. I have personally called security on a guy that was looking at pictures of naked women on the lab computers and had his computer lab privileges revoked. I don't believe that your library can't do something about that. I understand the public property thing, separate him, put him in a room.

Passport Pic:
Mine is the worst on the planet. I can hardly stand to look at it AND I AM SMILING!

Fortunately, I almost never smile for pictures (ha!). I have enough trouble smiling in pictures that friends and family take, and it just doesn't happen for ID or passport pictures. I've actually had people refuse to take ID pictures until I did smile, though.

I've had enough pictures taken for visas overseas where you weren't allowed to smile that it's sort of ingrained, I guess. I actually knew someone who got yelled at for smiling when they were taking his visa picture - something along the lines of, "Who told you you were supposed to smile?!?" Those were the pictures where you weren't allowed to wear any jewelry or glasses, too. Fun!

Bertha took the words right out of my mouth. If a woman can't walk around with no pants on, displaying her nether regions, why is it ok to look at pictures of the same thing?

I do not envy the librarian you spoke to. I wonder how often she has to deal with complaints like yours, and she thinks she can't do anything about it.

I can't send an ecard or a joke to my husband at work because of firewalls, and some old dude can play with himself in the library while viewing porn? This is really not right!

Laurie, I am not pleased to hear at all about the "no-smiling" rule for passport photos. I look really terrible in photographs anyway, let alone when I'm not smiling!

This news really does not make me any more eager to get a passport any time soon. I know I need to get one if I ever want to go to France with my fiance, but I've been trying to wait until January 20, 2009 when a new Administration takes over because right now the White House really scares me!

Welcome to the modern 21st century library. Sad, isn't it? The problem exists all over including the library here in Denver. I used to work at DPL and I'm glad that I left before the internet access became widespread and the porn viewing became prevalent. There are some library districts that have filtering on their computers and they have beeen accused of censorship. I agree with you that what is most disturbing is that there are children around while this is going on. The whole thing is totally insane.

I've come to the conclusion that passport photos always make you look horrible and that's just the way it is. :-(

I am sorry that I am feeling too lazy to browse your comments as I expect someone else already weighed in on the giant vag pics.

As a card-carrying and practicing librarian, albeit not a public librarian, what that woman said seems to be BS. Yes that situation happens a lot in libraries (public and academic) and most librarians are intolerant of censorship. However, if other library users complain and/or the person is viewing/doing (yes doing, people are often caught "examining" themselves in the library) materials of an offensive nature, they can be told to leave or move to some place more private. The person you approached was probably just tired of dealing with it. The library WILL have a policy about this.

Wow! California is liberal. Here in New Mexico(or at least in 'burque), porn on library computers is a big no no! Of course we are kind of backward here...our own governor (before he was governor and WAY before he was running for president) called the state a 'banana republic'. I guess not having to deal with perverts being perverts in the library is one of the few benefits of living in the banana republic of the first world.

I'm a former librarian who helped get the Children's Internet Protection Act (CIPA) passed, and then upheld by the Supreme Court. If your library gets federal funds, they are required to block this stuff. They may be declining federal dollars. For the library staff, their is legal precent on their side -- at the Minneapolis Public Library, the library was forced to bay $425K to settle a sexual harrassment suit because of porn surfers. more info on my website on both these cases here on the legal section of my web site at http://filteringfacts.org/legal/

I'm a librarian in an urban downtown library. Our internet is filtered, but I am constantly amazed how many pervs can get around the filtering. Why can't they use that power for good? Our library policy is to kick them out, since they are violating library policy by getting around the filters. Repeat violators are barred from the library for several months.

I used to work at a public library about 10 years ago when the innernets was just taking off. The big thing then? The Sport Illustrated Swimsuit issue. It was so gross I HAD to check it out to kids and the would take it for a while and then come back and photocopy their favorite ladies. Oh how I hated handling that magazine when they would bring it back. It was up there with the woman who brought back books with cat poo in them. No clue how that happened.

I just got my passport photo done this week. No, you can't smile. I also got a new driver's license this year and I'm very happy with it. First time ever. My passport photo I'm not as happy with, but it's not too terrible. I just wanted to get it done.

Now I get to wait 4-6 weeks to see if it comes in the mail. Woo hoo!

Laurie, I am going to shoot you an email here in the next day or so addressing the porn thing more in-depth, but here's the short(er) answer, that has already been said through the responses: it's basically all about the particular library's policy.

More on that...be sure to check your email!
-Melissa from the Desert (I try not to claim the Inland Empire any more)

As others have stated, there is no perfect solution, given that filtering software isn't perfect and it's very easy to get around it. The best compromise I've seen to date: filtered internet computers in the children's area and unfiltered internet computers WITH privacy screens in the adult area. And a strong acceptable use policy, along with a well-informed and empowered staff.

On the no-smiling-because-it-messes-up-the-biometrics blah blah blah? Let's say I have my non-smiling passport photo and then get placed on some Terrorist Watch List? Apparently, all I have to do to elude detection is smile all the time as I go through the airport, because then the Biometric Eye in the Sky can't tell it's me.

This non-smiling thing sounds like more Security Theater B.S., like the Contraband Mascara incident. The whole idea with biometric identification is that it measures UNCHANGING proportions, like the distance between your eyes or between the tip of your nose and the tip of your ear. If it doesn't accommodate normal facial expressions like smiling, then it's useless.

Of course, anyone who smiles in a airport isn't normal, anyway, and probably does pose a security risk.

I just had to look at both my driver's license and my passport. For some reason, I thought that I was smirking on both. I was wrong. I renewed my passport last in November following 9/11. Obviously this no smiling thing is fairly new. Humph! I guess I will have to go back to my fall back of a smirk.

"Or buy a hummer."

Hmmm. Guess you didn't know "hummer" is a slang word for oral sex (see Wikipedia, or the song "Great Big Stuff" from the Broadway show "Dirty Rotten Scoundrels": "the fashion plate I date'll give me hummers in my Hummer.")

:-)

Oh, the L.A. Public Library system has some issues. Porn being only one of them. Laurie - let's run for the board of supervisors! Then we can get rid of the weirdoes looking at porn in public and the various and other sundry nuisances in our fair city (like piles of dog poop!)

xo

My passport picture is so bad that I'm surprised they let me across the border.

And va-jay-jays are not art!

YES, they can do something about it! As a matter of fact, my local library refused to put filtering software on the computers, and said it cost them in federal tax dollars...that to NOT use the filtering meant the feds would NOT give them money! Then the library came begging for an increase in taxes, because a library is supposed to represent freedom of access. Well, I don't remember PLAYBOY in the library when I was a kid...although I did check out "101 Ways to Drive Your Man Crazy In Bed" when I was 12...and giggled through the whole thing.

hi CAP aka LP! i just heard about you from an acquaintance who is becoming a friend because she got divorced a few years ago and i'm getting divorced very currently. and i knit. and i have two cats. i'm buying your book tomorrow. and i've entered the contest as many times as i can because if i won i think i'd pee myself with happiness. but then you wouldn't want to meet me cause i wet myself, so i'll work on getting that under control in case i do win. i think you're pretty funny.

k, now that i feel sufficiently de-lurked, i have to say that i'm with you on the porn in the library issue. i live in the liberal-est city in the liberal-est state (cambridge, ma) and i feel like i fit in well here with the liberalism. HOWEVER, i think that if as a society we have laws against walking down the street butt-nekkid then there ought to be a law about butt-nekkid-ness on public media. it shouldn't be too hard to make a rule that if it can't been seen on the street, you can't see it out in the open at the library either!

Elizabeth said: “As someone who has been stuck in an internet cafe with someone looking at bandage pron (both deliberately misspelled), it's a VERY uncomfortable situation.” Did anyone else find this post absolutely hilarious? The purpose of bondage is to make you feel “uncomfortable” and “stuck” … *giggle*

I agree with Amy. I would have risked making a fool of myself to point out, IN A LOUD VOICE, that what this guy was doing was offensive and inappropriate. It’s a public place – you are allowed freedom of speech. Just be careful not to call him names (slander) or touch him (assault).

I also second the idea of complaining, complaining, complaining … the squeaky wheel gets the grease. :)

Between my pasty complexion, the obnoxious purple/blue flash lighting, and not smiling, I look like a corpse in my passport photo. The photographer told me that the no smiling rule was so that "they" could use your picture do identify you more easily if you died. So I guess, in a way, I have the best passport picture possible.

I think Georgia O'Keeffe would disagree with Jeannie ;-) This va-jay-jay's called "Jack in the Pulpit"...
http://sunsite.utk.edu/FINS/Doctrines_Injustice/O'Keefe.jpg"

That said, comparing a pornographic va-jay-jay to "art" is like comparing Brittney Spears to Audrey Hepburn.

Each library has had to come to terms with this issue, and to come up with policy and rules. I work at a public library. I have avoided asking what the official policy is relating to offensive sites precisely because I don't want to be hampered by "policy". If I see something I think is offensive, to me or anyone else, I tell the person we have a time limit on the use of our computers, and his time is up, NOW. This always works, as it would be rare that such an individual would be willing to argue about the time at that moment.

I have a nickles worth here. It may be public property but when you are offending someone else with your choice isn't that illegal or something?? And if its not can we make it illegal? Besides.. I'm sure they have places in LA with real live upclose ones. Why can't they go there if that's what they want to look at? I mean I would imagine they have whole buildings dedicated just to that!! The public library isn't the place for that. And why can't you smile in your passport photo?! that makes absolutely no sense to me. Also.. you said twat. *snicker*

I don't think it's censorship to make people look at that stuff in their own home on their own dime. yech.

Oh, honey, I hear you! I can't get over the degredation of society's respect for other people, and general lack of responsibility around young children. My husband almost got into a fistfight at our local mall the other day because this guy kept LOUDLY dropping the f-bomb in front of our 3-year-old and other children in line waiting to get seated in a restaurant, even after I and 2 other women with children told him to knock it off. I mean, literally, the guy was heading for the door taking his coat off before I stepped in and stopped my hubby, who was so mad - the mall "security" didn't even step in and stop the guy from yelling in front of all those kids, and just let him go back to the line and get seated. It's a shame, because my husband definitely feels a sense of obligation when people are acting like that, especially in front of children (and I'm SO non-confrontational, but with children around, especially my own, I've become very confrontational about swearing in front of them) because he really feels that if he doesn't call people out for acting like boors in front of them, no one else will. I agree whole-heartedly, but I still don't want to see him get shot in a mall parking lot by some thug who wants to fight instead of shutting his mouth!

I think it's absolutely asinine that libraries can't filter things like porn - if there are children using those computers, there SHOULD be filters. I work in a high school, and there are filters on things like Flickr (can't get onto it) and any kind of site that sounds even remotely pornographic, because the children might be able to access it - and that's the way it should be in libraries...if children can access it, it should be blocked. Let the dirty old men whack off at home!

Some digging the LA county library website board correspondence turned up this little number, dated Oct 05, titled "Board Report: Internet Pornography in County Libraries." It's a discussion of filtering pros, cons, and costs and promises "further info" in 6 months.
http://lacounty.info/omd/q4_2005/cms1_034817.pdf#xml=http://search2.co.la.ca.us/omd/xmlread.asp?K2DocKey=http://lacounty.info/omd/q4_2005/cms1_034817.pdf@OMD2&QueryText=
I'll continue probing, but it's a short read...

Let me add one more voice to the chorus pointing out that the librarians are being subjected to a hostile work environment and that the city and library are expsing themselves (no pun intended) to serious liability if they do not take action.

Bingo! The library does see an experience like yours as a problem, Laurie.

There was no further internet porn report, as promised, but there was one on library safety that was in large part devoted to sexual predation, especially towards children. In this report,(Aug 06), they say, "...in many facilities, the Department has been able to provide increased separation for adult computers from children's areas."

http://lacounty.info/omd/q3_2006/cms1_049570.pdf#xml=http://search2.co.la.ca.us/omd/xmlread.asp?K2DocKey=http://lacounty.info/omd/q3_2006/cms1_049570.pdf@OMD2&QueryText=

Another paragraph says there are filters on the computers in the children's area. "All children's computers have the children's filter which cannot be changed regardless of who is using the computer."

Each of these reports ends with such a lukewarm nothing that equates to "y'all are doing a great job, though! so keep up the good work, library-people!"

I saw someone driving in one of those obnoxious SUVs that your boyfriend Al Gore warns us about with hardcore porn on all of the TV screens. My daughter was in the car with me and we were stuck in traffic with this guy for awhile.
Scariest thing? He was alone in the car. I think.

i needed this post. thanks for the laugh.

I must comment about the Public Library and it's computers. Our librarians explained that since it's a Public Library, it is funded by grants by the US Government. In keeping with the rules & procedures regarding acceptance of Federal dollars, the Public Libraries are not allowed to censor or otherwise block any internet sites on their computers.
Many parents have complained to the Librarians that their children are looking at objectionable sites on the Library's computers. The Librarians politely tell the parents that they are not babysitters. If the parents do not want their child/ren looking at objectionable sites, then the parents need to be supervising their children at the Library.
I must tell you this story which happened to a friend of mine. She had taken her children to the Public Library. There was a man on one of the computers looking at pornography. She complained to the Librarian. The Librarian told her she agreed, but according to their policy, they cannot block sites or object to anyone looking at pornography. This is the Good Part. My friend gathered her children together near where The Man was looking at porn (not so they could see the computer screen), and said in a VERY LOUD VOICE "You see that man?" She pointed directly at him. "If you ever see him while you are in the Library, do NOT go near him! He is looking at Bad Things on the computer!" The whole library heard her. The Man? She said he looked at her and Laughed.
So yes indeedy you Can do something about it like my friend did. Will they care? Probably not. But at least you have done your part to warn everyone listening to steer clear of people like that. Can you imagine the effect if everyone did what my friend did? God bless her.

Since when do librarians (or the book buyers for libraries) have to spend tax dollars on what is clearly books for one purpose only? (Sexual stimulation, self or otherwise?) Seems to me that if a book is full of ONLY close-up pictures of female genitalia without any medical information or educational purpose at all...it's missing the whole point of libraries (education for the masses). I don't understand why library staff can't just choose not to purchase such one-dimensional books for their libraries (they make buying decisions based on all kinds of criteria all the time). I would argue that the original intent of libraries was probably NOT to provide sexual stimulation for free to those who apparently can't come by it any other way.

Anyhow, after typing that, now I'm all crabby, too!

Hee...

I can heartily recommend a trip to SF and the DMV in the Haight Ashbury on Oak and Divisidero. There is a dude there taking pix that will not let you leave until he gets a good one HE likes. AND he's picky. Next time you renew the CDL, make a weekend of it up in SF.

Ye gods and little fishes, what is this country coming to??

This past summer I observed a lady -- maybe early 30's? not an old fogy -- officiously haul lifeguards over to require that another woman put the straps of her bathing suit back on her shoulders. She had lowered them so as to get a more even tan, but had not exposed a nipple or anything. This was in July, in a public pool, and the lifeguards enforced the request. They didn't look happy about it, but they did it.

And yet graphic porn can be viewed in a public library? Seriously, if even posting a swimsuit calendar at work can be construed as sexual harassment for other employees, I'd think librarians would have an easy time taking care of this sort of thing.

Sorry. In my previous comment, I had missed the fact that the man was viewing porn on Internet screens as opposed to books. My bad...sorry!

As a student, I worked in a library years ago where we had to hand patrons their printouts from behind the desk (to avoid heavy misuse of the printing machines). I remember I had to hand some dirty old man some filthy stories he'd printed out about principals having abusive sex with the 14-year-old girls in their schools (very explicit). I was so disturbed, and I told our head librarian about it, and she was sympathetic, but due to freedom of expression/content laws she couldn't do a thing about it. (There technically weren't pictures, which would then have constituted child porn, which would then be not allowable.)

Sounds like you already have LOTS of variety in library etiquette advice...and I would agree that NOT being willing to accept that this is OK is an important step. In as much as we have to live with what "society" deems as acceptable, we are also allowed to have input into what that will be! Polite, firm, and damn persistant in some form is always appropriate! =)

Here's my non-smiling photo recommendation, if you're not sure you can pull off a smirk you'll be proud of: look at the photographer like they are saying something REALLY hilarious, but you're not sure they realize they are being funny--you know, those last few moments of being polite while you decide whether you can completely crack up or not? This lightens your expression, makes you look like you have a sense of humour without actually revealing any of the forbidden smileage...

Okay. Boo to censorship, too many laws, slippery slope, filters a pain, I get all that. BUT...

Surely there are already laws on the books about public indecency or public exposure, right? This should apply. I mean, freedom of expression doesn't extend to rape, because you don't get to "express" yourself sexually on another person without their consent. This seems very similar to me.

If there are laws against exposing your genitals in public (and I think the penalties are more severe if children are present, no? I could be wrong), then surely the law can apply to showing ANY genitals in a library. If nothing else, could it come under "contributing to the delinquency of a minor"?

Guess what - YOU have the same rights as Mr P0rn - sue the library. Wait - libraries need money - you could sue just to set precedence... Plus that would take so much time.

I think it would be more fun to stand next to him and sing something at him. Or you could pray over him holy-roller style. Or you could hit on him and tell him you think it would be hot if you could staple his nuts together. Or just hit him. Or pour hot, hot coffee on his lap, accidentally of course.

I am all for making this guy uncomfortable. He's trying to make everyone else uncomfortable, right? Who was it that said to take pictures of him? BRAVO TO YOU! Do that!

Tell him you are with Dateline or with Paul Majors from the Tee Vee and that you are shooting for a story on public blah-blah-something-or-other. You don't have to tell the truth! Well, you could try and send stuff in to the Tee Vee people - he doesn't need to know.

You could even elaborate and say that he was referred to you by a number of patrons that have observed him. Ask him if his father used to touch him. Ask him if he has sold his kids to his friends.

Make a fool out of him. I'm a survivor of one of these jerkoffs.

No you are NOT being old fashioned! My county taxes that I pay go towards my local county library. I would have a fit if I had seen that. I am in no way a fan of censure ship but porn at a public library should not be allowed. That is just wrong in every angle you look at it.

My CDL photo is kind of cute...I actually don't look forward to taking another one because I was at my cutest (IMO) that particular day!

My passport photo is beyond ugly; however, most people don't expect cuteness after a 12 hour flight.

If that man wanted to look at hoo-hahs, he should have done it at home. I think the previous posters are right; doing it publicly is probably part of the thrill for him.

Oh. My. Goodness!!!!
I totally cannot believe the nerve and lack of common decency and of some people. And that it is tolerated! I am like you in that I feel "Whatever floats your boat", but at least have the decency to keep it behind closed doors, because seeing that crap while I'm walking through the library (and chances are, if I were walking through the library my kiddos would have been with me)sure doesn't float mine. I don't know why we are surprised by it, the world has really gone to shit anymore, but still I never cease to be amazed.
I am, however, relieved to find that I am not the only one appalled by it.

Okay, you'd think that hardcore porn is NOT okay for kids to see - they will get nothing good from it - so maybe its violating their right in some way (wait, do kid's have rights?). If we could say that his right to view porn is infringing upon their/our rights then we may have something. ?
If that happened in my library there'd be shitstorm, of course I live in GA which is a little different than CA. This is wrong on many levels, but the most important one is the exposure of children to porn, not whether or not he has a right to do it! Thats it, I'm writing to the Guvana of Cal-ee-fornee-u!

The SC's said that libraries can't block sites. BUT they can remove disturbances.

That said, wouldn't it be nice to bring back the old-fashioned hat pin? POKE! How'd you like THAT you disgusting old fart!!!

Wow. Pornographic Masturbatory Exhibitionism.

The guy better slow down or he's going to run out of new perversions to exercise.

I've struggled with the porn/censorship issue for many years (being a woman, and a poly sci major, and formerly a lawyer, etc.) However, particularly during a time when our country is taking away all kinds of rights from toothpaste on airplanes to abortions in doctors' offices, I have to say, let 'em look at whatever they want.
(Really, I think the disturbing issue is why they want to look at those pics and what "positive" thing they get from them, aside from the obvious, because as we all know, a man can jack off to a mug if he wants to.)

When I was in middle school the candy store on the same block as the school sold all the porn magazines right above the candy. This was the 70s. Actually the mags lined a wall, where any customer could reach any mag. Including customers that were only in 7th grade. So, I saw lots of "beaver" and "jugs" as I chose my candy bar. But you know what? It didn't harm me. It bothered me, (as is clear from the vivid memory I have of it 30 years later) but it didn't harm me. Although, I suppose depending upon the affect it had on my male classmates, perhaps it was harmful, but we'll never know.

The other problem with trying to censor that sort of thing is that important medical information also gets trapped in the censorship net. And for the last 20 years the "religious right" has systematically been running for school board and other political positions with the purposeful and planned intent of banning accurate sex ed in school. (In the mid 90s I wrote a report for NARAL, detailing the laws in all 50 states plus DC about this. It is truly horrifying the disinformation they are actually teaching children as well as what they ban from being taught. There's also an organization called something like SEICUS, which documents this sort of thing. It really is shocking, the lies that they print and give to school children.)

Also, in Canada, there was a big brauhaha over censorship about 20 years ago. It turned out that the impetus of the censorship was gay mags, pics, ets. not all of which would offend the sensibilities of a non-bigoted person.

Anyhow, I guess, while I don't like the porn, I don't think it "harms the children," at least not in the way you are using the term.

Again, as for me, I've seen men jerking off while staring at me, since my teen years. On the subway, in the park, on the one block of trees in the business district of Washington DC, while I and other attorneys ate lunch in our suits (so apparently appropriate office attire for one of the most conservative professions provides very good jerking off fodder. And I suppose, since this attire includes see through shirts and leg baring skirts, this shouldn't suprise me. Anyhow, while seeing sleezy men stare at me while jerking off sometimes scared me (like the times I was alone on an empty subway car traveling to high school through Harlem and the South Bronx), and other times made me mad, really, it never did harm me, in the way I think you mean. Although it's just occurred to me that those men should have had to pay me for my services of helping them jack off.

Instead of worrying about what "the children" are seeing when looking at body parts, perhaps we should worry more about what we are teaching them about men and women and girls and boys. Like for example, those cheerleaders at football games, from the school field to the Super Bowl. (Having grown up in NYC and therefore not really being a "true American," I attended (and saw) my first football game in my mid-30s (I never paid attention to the game at Super Bowl parties). Anyhow at this professinal game of Texas vs. DC, I was truly shocked by the sideline performances of barely clad women dancing around "entertaining" when most people were focused on getting food or another beer. (I was in a "luxury box" so this behavior was more exaggerated for me.) I think that is far more harmful to the children than some twat shots. (None of my schools had a football team, so I was spared the shocking sexism of the cheerleaders vs. the players).

I'm sorry this is so long. I guess you hit a nerve, that I wasn't even aware of.

Ah, Laurie. Not only did you go to the Central Library, where ALL the crazies hang out, but you were in the Foreign Language department which is like "Central Perk" for homeless folk. There's a bathroom and comfy sofas, and the computers are usually free. I learned this during my month of unemployment. You may want to steer clear of the history department in the basement as well.

Welcome to the party! There is a good chance that the person you saw browsing porn was homeless... Or doesn't have any Internet access from the hovel in which he roots. We have a guy who frequents my Library who I named, Porn Man. He doesn't even need Internet access for his porn, he brings it with him on every format you can think of. I've had to scrub porn off our catalog computers and word processors that he has left behind, either intentionally or unintentionally.

We don't like it, but he's clever, and we can never beyond a shadow of a doubt be sure it was him... We have a lot of very freaky people come in, so in reality it could be any 2 out of 10 people we see at any given time. We call these patrons or "Irregulars."

That said, public libraries highly value peoples freedom to read and view, along with patron privacy. In my Library, we do however, filter the Internet computers in the Children's Department. Keep in mind, however, that filtering is immensely imperfect and misses a lot of smut... It also tends to restrict valid research topics such as "Mars exploration" because s-e-x are consecutive letters in the string, a lot of art history, and information regarding family issues such as divorce... To name only a very few.

Our Irregulars give me a lot to blog about though :-)

Wow! Seems to amazing to me that we can zone towns to keep Porn stores out but we can't keep it out of the library. Maybe I'm old fashioned but wouldn't it be nice if our libraries just had books to check out. Like the old days. Wonder if Mr. Carnegie is turning in his grave?

Our County Executive (Rochester, NY) threatened to cut off all tax dollars to the Library system if pornography was not blocked in the public library. Censorship is denying access, good citizenship is restricitng access to appropriate times and places. Read what you like at home, leave the library for decent people to read and learn in.

No comment on the perv in the library... ok well one... ewwwwwwwwwwww!

On the passports my whole family (5) of us just got passports, dh & I renewals and the kids new ones. Just got them back (it only took 3 weeks!) and we. are. all. smiling. Seriously is someone checking every picture for illegal smiling? I doubt it. The person who took our pics and did whatever they do with the applications was the best govt worker I've ever come across! Come to central Florida and get your passport pic taken and smile away with your bad self!

I'm all about taking his picture, lots and lots of times. Then send to every media outlet and politician on the planet, 27 times (they might ignore you the first 26).

Although...I think it is actually illegal for the media to publish without his permission. How weird is that? But, you might get some smarmy investigative report out of the deal, and when they tape him, they'll blot out his face and disguise his voice (and hopefully the pictures on the monitor...HA!)

Someone who looks at hoo-ha in the public library probably doesn't care about much of anything. Hard to make an ass out of someone who is, already, an ass.

I think the best thing to fall back on is the sexual harassment issue. If I can't post a half-naked picture of some hotty in my office, which is in a secure building, then surely there is an out for this situation, which is public. If nothing else, go with the "causing a disturbance" angle.

Awful, just awful...

So's you know: you can send in your very own 2x2 photo with your passport application. It doesn't have to be pro. I took a bazillion photos in my hallway, got to the computer to edit for flash and contrast, sized it appropriately, and printed it out. No word from the US Dept. of State, and my passport came back shiny, new, and with a great picture.

I guess they want our passport photos to match the look on our faces when someone is rummaging through our baggie of mini-shampoos and frisking us while we wear our socks with the hole in one toe for everyone to see.

Our library here has many sites blocked and they have signs posted that viewing inappropriate material will get you kicked out. Public computers don't mean free speech. If you can get in trouble for doing something with your own spouse with the windows open, I can't see how viewing porn in a public place used by kids is okay. Your library needs to hook up with a web security expert who can put up some filters - not only to prevent porn but to protect the security of their network. Those computers are probably crawling with viruses if people can access any sites they want.

And hey, good job on learning a foreign language! I'm learning Spanish right now so I can travel more effectively and I love it.

Finally, I've got something semi-intelligent to say about one of your posts, instead of lurking for months on end!

I work at a University library. Our Director is really proud that it is one of the few University libraries open to the public, and for that alone I kind of want to hang a medal on him, because the public library, while it's struggling valiantly, is under-funded and it's easy to go through their whole collection in a very short time.

But.

One of the problems with being open to the public is that students were not able to get to the computers for their actual research because there were SO MANY DUDES LOOKING AT PORN.

So now we have a small number of computers available to the public, and the rest, you need a student ID to log on to. I think that our policy in the old days was, If you are uncomfortable because someone is looking at porn right next to you, you can go to Security, and Security can ask them to take their porn-viewing elsewhere. I'm not so sure what the policy is now. Actual masturbation, of course, is right out, as evidenced by the SHEER MASSES of people we've had to ban from the library for doing it. And most of them weren't even looking at porn -- just at female students.

I think, but I am not completely sure, that at the public library, there is a NetNanny type program installed, and you have to ASK the librarian to log in and circumvent it if you want to get to your porn.

At one time in my community libraries, there were no website blocksm until someone brought it to the attention of the media. Once the genral public and local government officals got wind of this the libraries set up content filters and web security pretty quickly.

Oh oh and also: Someone gave me a copy of your book as a gift recently. I read it in, like, three days, and read about one-third of it out loud to my mom in the process.

I think you need to do more than just go "EW! GROSS!"
I think you should shout "OMG! You're looking at PORN? In a public library?? With children around?
What's wrong with you? EW! GROSS! You need to do this at home buddy! Hey! Yawl need to see what this freak is looking at! It's so wrong!!!!! PORN! At the public library! What has happened to common sense? Decency? This is SOOOOOO GROSS!"
Then whip out the camera.
He'll probably be totally freaking running out of there at that point.
I think you should give him HELL!

It seems weird that a man who exposed his own genitals to children, among others, in a public place would be arrested, yet one who exposes images of other people's genitals in a library is untouchable.

I loved both halfs of this post! It made me both splutter and chuckle.

Um, sorry, halves.

I know what you mean about the public library pervs checking out the porn on the public computers.
It's wierd but I always thought Porn viewing was a private thing best done in the privacy of ones home or peep show booth or somewhere where you are alone...but what part of the PUBLIC LIBRARY screams wank off time?...gross.
When I was in college I was in the school library and a guy who was not a student (I know cause non students had to get these visitor passes and wear them on their shirts) was sitting at the computer 2 stations down from me looking at porn and I exclaimed sorta loudly "EEEEEEEEEW" which made everyone turn their heads and look and make similar noises and the dude didn't even look up. He just kept on checking out the porn....wierd.

You don't see guys with Hustlers in public, so why should they be looking at vaginas on a computer screen in public?

This is not a "rights" issue. It is a good taste and reasonable intelligence issue.

My .02

A long term reader of your blog, I value your humour and dedication to personal growth. In reading about your outrage in the public library, I felt uneasy about the suggestion of limiting public access to information as a way to protect children... and women.

Wouldn't a responsible use of common sense see the problem contained? Perhaps something as simple as a childfree zone.

As I fall into the category that many call "old" and I work to become an well-loved elder like your Gran, I felt surprised at your repeated pejorative use of the word "old". Would the behaviour you object to be acceptable in a "young" person?

You make brilliant use of the power of humour. Please remember the power of words. Remember the value of open access to information. Be prepared to struggle with the consequences. Thank you so much for writing and for being a welcome part of my day.

I think this whole library porn situation is one of those many instances where california is sort of off in its own little world apart from the rest of us... you can't be so afraid to offend someone that you allow porn in front of children... anyway, here on the east coast that sort of thing would not be acceptable near children, some of the university libraries allow it on the grounds that its necessary for human sexuality classes (sometimes the have porn viewing assignments) but in a normal public library with children there would likely be filters, and if not filters definitely someone to usher you away should you do something so completely inappropriate...

You can take your own passport photo! That's what I do. I even airbrushed out some of the wrinkles. They're only legal if you print them on one of those kodak print stations like they have in the drugstore though, I think. Also they have to be a particular size, and against a white background.

What that old pervert did was wrong. It was worse then wrong, all the things I voiced outload and my dog Snoopy agreed. We were having a this same problem in my library in March of this year. THe librarian thought they couldnt do anything and the fact is they can. They call the police, and have then tell the guy he can not look at this stuff. If he continues to come back they will issue a no trespass thingy and if he shows up she will be arrested. Kids are in the Library and all this jerkwad wants to do is get arise out out someone because he probably has a small....

Opps I digress... next time you go in there tell the librarian to call the cops on the pervert. If I saw this loser I would also break library law #1 ( stay quiet), walk away and say, " Only low class _____(fill in the blank), would be ignorant enough to think its ok to look inapropriate materials. ( I would also tell every parent you see... that would get it nipped in the bud...

as you can tell I have no toleerance for perverts. Thanks dad the cop and Law & Order SVU!

As per your oranginess, what is with your aura and how can we adjust it?

Thanks for letting me vent

California has a law that has been on the books for a few years now. If you view obscene material (As defined by local community standards) using a state-owned computer, you're guilty of a crime, with a maximum penalty of $1000 per image. Why can't city libraries also be included in this law?

And the many readers here are right - your own rights have been violated. He may have a "right" to view those images, but you also have a right not to be subjected to them in public. Complain to higher powers!

I work in a university library. University library policy is that library staff are not allowed to monitor what patrons are viewing on their computers. It's none of our business. That said, if a patron is viewing something and it's bothering a patron sitting nearby, we can ask the patron who is bothered if they would prefer to sit at another workstation. If a patron insists on actively drawing others' attention to the monitor, though, that's another matter, and they would need to stop that or leave.

(Do not speak to me of filters. The purpose of a library is to help people find information. Filters do the exact opposite.)

Got you beat. I was at the UCLA library in September and encountered a man watching porn and masturbating on the computer! I will never use those computers to look up call numbers again. Ever.

Nihongo no benkyou ga, ganbatte kudasai!

It's funny though that you're learning Japanese and complaining about those two things though (not that I think either of them are things that shouldn't be complained about--I totally agree with you!) I live in Japan, and am still amazed how men here look at porn and graphic porno manga (think rape scenes) on the trains, wherever, kids, grandmas, whomever next to them. Ick. How rude. Also, in Japan it is totally verboten to smile in any kind of official photo, including school pictures. Consequently, school yearbooks are filled with photos of stern and miserable looking kids in identical uniforms, and no one has a smiling passport or driver's license.

Well, I can tell you that here in rural n.w. Wisconsin the librarians have no qualms about telling Mr. Dirty Old Man to go somewhere else to look at his porno pictures. There is one guy that every librarian in the county (all ten of them) knows and trades stories about. The last straw was the day he started making unappealing remarks to the teenage girl at the computer next to him. He is persona non grata at every library in the county.

I'm surprised and sad that there are so many people who think laws or limiting what people look at in a public library (of all places!) is the solution to what is really just petty rudeness. There are plenty of things I don't care to see, all of them way worse than porn, and they are perfectly legal. The only library that won't contain any speech/pictures/sounds/etc. that offend you is the one in your own home. For people who really and sincerely believe being offended is justification for passing a law, and putting the power of the state behind enforcing your personal anti-ick list, please do us all a favor and move to Iran or Saudi Arabia. They prohibit all kinds of things there. Of course, you might not get the pick the list of things to be prohibited, but that's a natural consequence of wanting laws based on what "offends" you.

Finally, it's just a vulva. Half the human race has them. Anyone whose children are shocked or traumatized by seeing pictures of the human body is screwing up his or her kids way more than a five-second walk past a stranger could possibly manage.

I am a public librarian in a medium sized library on the east coast. We have no filtering. None. My director made it a point to refuse all federal funding so we would not have to be bound by CIPA. The only thing patrons are prohibited from viewing is child pornography. Anything else is fair game. It may seem strange, but I am completely happy with the policy as it stands. Sure we get our share of porn viewers, but I wouldn't consider it a workplace hazard. I became a librarian because I believe in freedom of information. I would rather have to look at the occasional naked person than to have any non-porn site blocked because of an imperfect filter. And they are all imperfect. I am sorry that you were offended Laurie and you as a patron had a right to let the patron know he was making you uncomfortable, but if the LA libraries are anything like mine, policy would forbid me from doing the same. Violating patron privacy, whether it related to internet use, library records, reading habits, or even whether a person has been in the library, is grounds for termination.

approximately 10 years ago, my (then) husband was using a library computer, and happened across a fan site for sheena easton. she was wearing a bikini in one shot. the librarian kicked him off the computer, and tried to ban him from the library. for a perfectly legit shot of someone in a bikini. (he fought it, and the city council made her put up specific guidelines (and bikinis were not on that "banned" list, oy))

and this jerk can view hardcore porn in a library? what happened to public decency laws? i can't believe they can't do anything about that!

You can't smile in ANY passport photo, anywhere, now. There's some kind of international convention against it that came in during the last couple of years. Smiles probably bugger-up their facial recognition software.

- Pam (found this out when I renewed my Australian passport a year ago)

When I see some perv doing exactly that in the libary, I walk up right behind him and say, at the top of my lungs, "Hey everybody, this jerk is looking at PORN!!!" And then I walk off.

I mean LOUD.

Maybe the librarians can't do anything about it, but you can. Embarrass the guy publicly and then write to the mayor and City Council to complain.

omg you totally look like the mom in the coneheads movie! http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/9/93/Coneheads_Poster.jpg

Don't feel so bad about your passport photo. When my Mom was a child, the family was traveling and the picture taker made my grandmother & grandfather REMOVE their glasses for the picture!
So there were bean counters in DC over 50 years ago, too.

Go to this link and scroll down to the "Library Timeline" cartoon. Welcome to the world of a public librarian. And for the record, a desk clerk is not a librarian. Qualified librarians are required to have graduate degrees (they have to be fairly edu-ma-cated to do all those searches, evaluate those databases, manage those budgets, etc). I hate the fact that so many people think working in a library makes one a librarian almost as much as having to deal with library pervs. Thankfully such people (both kinds!) are not allowed in my library which is for a pharma company.
Signed,
Still paying off the graduate school loans corporate librarian

My first comment....though I have been enjoying your great sense of humour for a while now.
So happy to hear you are learning Japanese....so I think that answers your holiday destination problem....come to Japan!!! I'm near to Kyoto and Osaka.....lots of beautiful places...quite a few knitting shops..good food...Tempted?

Zoiks! I forgot to post the link!
http://www.marriedtothesea.com/mtts-archives/mttsarchive-dec07.php

"Maybe later I'll go picket something." Go see SafeLibraries.org http://www.safelibraries.org/ for how bad things have become thanks to the American Library Association [ALA].

Even you have been fooled by ALA propaganda. You said, for example, "I'm not a fan of censorship, never have been. But I am a fan of behaving decently and with respect around both books and children." So you are saying, at least I infer this, that keeping hardcore material out of the public library is censorship.

It is not. It is what the ALA wants you to think, but it is not censorship, and it is perfectly legal to stop it, and even the ACLU now says filters are 95% and more effective at preventing the display of such material.

Usually, the ALA is the reason local communities like yours do not filter such material. Sometimes, crimes might occur as a direct result. And the ALA convinces local librarians to do nothing about it, as your post shows:

"I told this to the front desk clerk, and she agreed it was awful and she herself hated it and many of the staff had often complained as well, because apparently that sort of thing happens all the time. 'It's not like it used to be at libraries,' she said, shaking her head. 'There are little kids here too! It's just disgusting, but THEY TELL US IT'S PUBLIC PROPERTY AND NOTHING CAN BE DONE ABOUT IT.'"

Excuse me? They tell her there is nothing that can be done? They are putting the LIE in LIE-BRARIAN. Actually, I truly feel sorry that librarians are being forced, as you have illustrated, to carry out a policy of anything goes instead of using a constitutionally-approved method of filtering out a huge amount of such material. To do so would end harassment of patrons AND librarians, and much more/worse.

By the way, some librarians actually sued under similar circumstances and the library settled for a lot of money when it looked like the library would lose and set a precedent.

So no, that is not censorship. Don't let them mislead you.

Do something in your community to point out how your local library follows ALA agenda, not the local community's wishes. Get the ALA to pay for the library and stop taxing the public if the ALA wants to skirt the law to allow such material and dictate policy that allows that and forces the librarians to apologize for not stopping what you saw.

It's a "public" library, right? It's not an "ALA" library. So wrest control from the ALA and restore it to the public.

To clear up further misinformation from some librarians commenting here:

ACLU v. Gonzales, E.D. Pa., March 2007

http://www.paed.uscourts.gov/documents/opinions/07D0346P.pdf

ACLU expert and court agrees Internet filters are about 95% effective and no longer block out breast cancer and other health-related information—so effective that another law, COPA [Children's Online Protection Act], was found unconstitutional.

Apart from censorship or non-censorship debates... Anyone watching porn stuff in an open-to-public environment does this probably to BE watched, to CAUSE some kind of embarassment and to make people feel molested. Just for the thrill of it.
So anything you do to arise public disgust will be water on his mill, I presume.

I'm not sure of the laws in California, but in Pennsylvania you can remove someone for looking at porn in the library. It fits under public decency laws (the same laws that make it illegal to go running around naked in the library.) If you talk to the head librarian, they should be able to do something.

Our local public library is a public building, but everything in it is private property owned by a board of public officials and private citizens. They set up the rules and enforce them. They are very strict about appropriate behavior on library property.

I don't think you are being a fuddy-duddy, I think you are being a responsible citizen. I have no problem with porn, but it sounds like this guy has a problem. His behavior is not appropriate behavior for a public venue and definitely not for an area where children can view what he is looking at.

In Canadia (or at least my part of it), while the libraries are public, the computers in said libraries are the private property of said public libraries. There are all kinds of rules, like you have to sign out the machine ahead of time, you can only spend a half hour at a time on it, there are blocks set up so that you can't get "adult" sites, and the librarian has the right to ask you to get off the computer (and leave the building if desired) at any time.

But we aren't allowed to smile in our passport photos either. The hubster thinks it's so that everyone looks like a terrorist from the get go, so there's less discrimination. He's a bit of a dork.

Here's that case I mentioned where the librarians were harassed:

http://filteringfacts.org/legal/adamson/

Great post...definitely "seemingly" unrelated things! We call this effect "creeping old-fogeyism" around here. Not that it's a BAD thing, mind you!

Our local library's public computer policy:

"Internet stations on the upper level are not filtered, but patrons may not access pornographic sites by Michigan state law. You can find more information here.

"Internet stations in the children’s and young adult rooms are filtered. Patrons under the age of 18 must have a permission slip signed by a legal guardian to access any machine."

Okay, I haven't read all the comments. First though, who did you complain to at the library? The front desk clerk was probably the person at the check out desk? Generally, they won't have the authority to do anything about it, although they should have referred you to someone who could. If you ask to speak to the Librarian (chances are the person you're talking to at any given time isn't a librarian, most people who work in libraries aren't), then I'm betting you'd get a different answer.

Our Internet Access policy, for example, has a line that states "The Library is a public place used by people of diverse background and ages. There are sites on the Internet inappropriate for viewing in a public setting. Library staff reserve the right to end Internet sessions when such material is displayed." We also have a general Public Use of Library Facilities policy which includes the line "In order to make the library and its property an enjoyable place for all, members of the public are expected to act in a manner respectful of other people and property".

If you had complained to me, in my branch, I would have told the patron in question that what he was viewing was inappropriate for viewing in a public setting where it could be seen by small children, that we had had complaints, and then informed him that he needed to stop viewing things that are inappropriate, or end his session on the computer. If nobody had complained, however, I wouldn't have done anything. Chances are I wouldn't even have noticed what he was looking at, because I don't even bother to look at computer screens anymore--I'm surrounded by computers all day, I don't even see them now!

***warning, unpopular opinion here***
Hey laurie,
I work in a library. I love the library. I'm a passionate believer in freedom of information. I don't want anyone telling me what I can or cannot read...imagine if you will, that a group of people took umbrage at a craft that involves sticks and string, and decided that all people who looked at websites involving sticks and string crafting were deviant and shouldn't be allowed to indulge their obsession? That's the real danger...that someone else could tell you, for any arbitrary reason, that something you were doing was wrong.
Libraries are scary and dangerous places, folks. You don't want your kids there unattended, believe me. We are one of the only places that exist that welcomes everyone through its doors...homeless, poor, rich, sick and well.
That said, I can tell you why "we" think people like to look at their porn in the out in the open: they want you to react. They get a kick out of your shock and dismay. If you grab your kids and clutch them to you, you've just given that porn viewer a little jolt of excitement. How powerful!
Here's what we do at our branch: if someone complains, we walk over with a nice privacy screen and say, "I'm sorry. There's has been a complaint and you need to use this privacy screen." Sometimes, we might ask them to move to a different location. The only time we ask them to leave is if they are disruptive, or if they are viewing child porn, which is illegal.
Or touching themselves...ew.
My personal feeling is that it's an addiction looking at that stuff, and that helps me feel a measure of compassion. Library work is often akin to social work without the proper license.

I just called our library to check their policies. The kids computers do have filters. The others do not. However, if someone is obviously and publicly looking at pr0n and another person complains, they will say something. The central (downtown) library does have screen filters and the monitor are angled so that stuff isn't visible by passerbys.

Not only do I love your blog, but I think I love nearly everyone who reads your blog, since from a perusal of the comments (and I confess I did not have time to read every single comment) most everyone focused on the porn issue and not on what, to me, was the most fascinating part of the post, namely that you are learning Japanese with a man named R. If there were an award for Best Discreet Introduction of a Significant Someone in a blog post, you would win it hands-down.

As for passport pictures: I took my professional headshot, shrunk it down on my home computer to the requisite size (they have a website where they show you the size and head placement they require), printed it on photo paper, and took it in; they accepted it without blinking. The unexpected downside is that my glamorous passport photo looks nothing like me when I am staggering off an overnight flight to Europe, with bad hair and no makeup, which is, of course, when people are looking most closely at your passport.

Honestly, you would think that people would have respect for themselves as well as others and not view their porn in a public place. I would never even think to do something like that. I would be ashamed and my Mom if she were still alive would have killed me! I have a problem with censorship as well but, there is a time and a place for everything. There comes a time when you need to show some decency and not view the porn at the library.
I would have slapped him in the back of the head with my heavy old purse and commented right away, that the purse always gets out of hand and just flies off my shoulder but, I think the point would have hopefully been taken...if not, then whack the crap out of him again until the point was well taken.

I would be bringing the porn issue to my local talking heads. They are certainly allowed to block porn from public computers unless they are going to make it so children are not allowed in that area. Aren't these your tax dollars at work?

I work for the City of Los Angeles, although not for the library. I have a friend who works with security services here @ the city and she says that that particular library has many issues besides people viewing porn (which apparently is legal, check out the link...). There is a lot of crime associated with that library as well....hate to be such a downer, wish I had some positive information for my first comment (love your blog btw Laurie!) Anyways, check out this link for more info http://www.lapl.org/about/computer_policy.html

I work for the City of Los Angeles, although not for the library. I have a friend who works with security services here @ the city and she says that that particular library has many issues besides people viewing porn (which apparently is legal, check out the link...). There is a lot of crime associated with that library as well....hate to be such a downer, wish I had some positive information for my first comment (love your blog btw Laurie!) Anyways, check out this link for more info http://www.lapl.org/about/computer_policy.html

My mom suggested thinking of something that makes you happy when you get your picture taken. It has worked well for me in the past, but now the Canadians aren't even allowed a smirk. Actually, we're not even allowed glasses (no shadows on your face) so I look very strange in my passport photo. Don't tell a girl who always wears glasses to take them off...it isn't right.

Back to the photo: if you are still allowed to smirk, conjure up thoughts of Koigu on top of a chocolate cheesecake next time...just don't let the guy taking the photo distract you from your happy thought.

As for porn in the library, it depends on your side. I believe that I have the right to not see that sort of thing in a public place, and therefore go find a corner. When I rule the world, that's how things will be. Until then...

I feel you on the porn in the library bit...I work in an academic library at a public university, so we get all sorts in here. One good thing is that the second we see anybody masturbating, our campus police come and arrest them and kick them off campus. Always very satisfying.

As for part 2 of your post, there's an old saying I've heard: If you look like your passport photo, you're too sick to be traveling! Wise words. Good luck on getting a better pic!

Well, if they were gyno-shots, I suppose he could make the argument he was doing medical research.

Porn in libraries is not a simple problem. Porn is, to para-quote a SCJ "I don't know what it is until I see it." What is porn to one person may be a WWF website to another, or art, or research.

And yeah, I have known one to two scholars that looking at porn is actual research - studying the effect of porn on culture, the role of the woman in porn as a feminist study...

Most libraries tend to have a policy of "if someone complains, then we nicely ask them to not view that material (or in not such a public place) - which is, I think, a good policy.

Many public libraries also have filtered computers either library wide or in the childrens section, and limit adult use of computers in the childrens section. However, in light of how filters filter everything BUT what they are suppose to do, most libraries, in the interest of intellectual freedom, will disable filters if an adult asks.

Oy. A lot of libraries have a policy on porn and other subjects that are offensive (hmm, guess where I work!). Bring it to the attention of the library director. I tend to think in reverse in these situations, yes it's a public space, but that's just it, viewing porn makes others feel very uncomfortable and unable to use the space. (I doubt you'll be using that terminal any time soon). Unfortunetly, what's considered public decency changes frequently, and new technology makes it more difficult to draw the line.

And um, libraries are not babysitters. So "what about the children" doesn't apply - parents should be with the children, and can watch their internet viewing - whether it is on the screen or someone's elses - appropriately.

And that is pretty much the starting point of most policies....

Checking out the ALA's Intellectual Freedom page is a good place to start for information about Internet use in Libraries.

If it is acceptable to view internet porn in the library because it supports freedom of information, why doesn't the library subscribe to Hustler and have a XXX video area too?