Wow, am I really first??

I think you're exactly right. I've always hated telling, but when dealing with my oldest adopted child, the difficult one, the one who has been to hell and back and because of that has his share of problems, I sometimes yell. I hate myself for it, but I think it comes from my own insecurity about parenting. I think I yell when I feel that all my softness and patience is not getting through, so I resort to something ugly and loud.
I don't like it. Thanks for making me think about it.

I have yelled, too, when I was married. I hear her hollering and it's like holding a mirror up to myself. And I feel bad for her, because no one ever wants to feel that frustrated.

Sometimes I feel like I have to yell, to get whatever emotion it is in me out, before it finds another avenue. I yell sometimes just so I don't do something worse. Mostly it is my teenage son that I get to this point with. His father has raised him to only respect physical strength (or violence, depending on your point of view, he minds his dad cause his dad is big and will knock the crap out of him).

Just this week I had a big problem with my son. And I told him, later when we cooled off that he had to go back to his dad's house sooner than he planned, because otherwise I was going to blow a gasket and beat the tar out of him and I didn't want to get to that point.

Being a parent can be a real trial sometimes. We don't hit in this house. My daughter only gets a spanking if she pushes the limits over and over and even then, it's at her dad's, not here. But Momma can definately wake the neighbors. LOL.

I screamed when I brought them into this world... sometimes I scream to keep from taking them back out.

I used to work for a family law attorney and the saying there was that people were often on their best behavior in criminal court, but on their worst in family court. It's .. true more often than not. :/

For what it's worth, neighborhoods like the one you imagine still exist. I live in one, and while I have been known to complain about the "garage people" (the folks who rent the place across the way that seem to live in their garage for no readily apparent reason), I have to admit, I'm happier here than I would have been in a city.

I've had neighbor's like that. Makes you wonder. I'm sure I've done my share of yelling but hopefully not that bad, and not for many many years. But I've been on the edge and it's no fun. Don't want to go there again.

I was just thinking that perhaps we learn very early that we can get away with more around our families than in public. I am not sure why... but kids always, even my 2 year old niece, behave better for other people than for their primary care giver. My niece is an angel except for her mom at home.

that was so beautiful. it touched the panic'd frenzied part of me that lets loose because, at that moment, that's all there is available to me. and it isn't the womanly instinct. you know that horrible joke, where the group of sauced men shout the punchline: 'because she JUST. WOULDN'T. LISTEN!', and guffaw and drink on. well, boys, that phrase can apply to you too, in your bratty, self-righteous moments. we love you, but for god's sake, sometimes it takes a banshee to wake you up to what your LOVER is trying to say. Am I sounding a bit extreme? I love my J., but sometimes that tightnes in your chest, when you've been negotiating and placating and doing your best to make the best of a bad mood, that knot just HAS to be released.
okay, i'm done.

Sounds like my neighbor. They finally moved last year and it's been nice ever since.

What are these 'middle-of-the-night sounds' you are refering to?

Us Canadians believe you mean 'any old time of the day sounds' but we are not sure.

Oh, and let the yelling not be sounded in rage, but in joy.
Happy noises are always good.
I have a neighbour that laughs loudly (and sort of crazy-like, but he's happy...so I don't mind.)

Yep, been there, done that. Before my late husband had the first big stroke, when the damage from the little ones was apparent (to ME at least), but still undiagnoised, I let loose on him more than once. I'm suprised that the neighbors didn't call the cops.

Once I understood what was going on, it was both harder (because I knew the prognois wasn't so good) and easier (because I knew he wasn't provoking me deliberatly). Sometimes the frustration level just gets so high that it's scream or explode.

I think I yelled at my ex-husband because I just couldn't ever get him to respond, he was like a brick wall, mute and incapable of dealing with me, and maybe when I hear this woman yell it makes me remember all that.

I am so glad I'm not married to him anymore, when I remember stuff like that.

Laurie, never posted before but love you madly. Don't even knit (yet). Found you last year, thought in my ignorance 'poor girl, that could never happen to my marriage' and here I am. We're working on fixing things though. I am grateful but the road is long.

My point, and there is one. Grew up in a house like your neighbor's. Fists in walls, yelling, abuse. Awful way to live, and sucks that you default to it as an adult when you hated it so badly as a kid. I'm working on it, and apologize and ask forgiveness of my kids whenever it happens (the yelling, no fists!).

You think you won't take the spouse for granted, but you do. Until your core is shaken and the surface of your life is peeled back like a jagged can lid. Then you start to rebuild your life and see with honest eyes how your marriage got to where it is, and your part in that.
Now this doesn't always apply, exhibit A being Mr. X - some people are without redeeming qualities and it's not always fixable. But you have investigated and tweaked things about yourself that you would not have if your life had stayed on autopilot, yes? yes.
me too.
Proud to know you, my invisible internet friend.

Hey Laurie,
This is my second post for the evening to you, hope you can bear with me!

The posts you write about your ex I find really mulit-layered and interesting.
You don't come out and say he was a horrible person all the time (well, once in a while) and you don't suggest he was the only one that caused the break up (though frankly, he sure didn't try to fix things from what I can see).
I want to say that I respect the fact that you take some responsibility for the change/end of your marriage.

I also wanted to say, that despite the way he turned out, there must have been some redeeming qualities to him; a clever, loving woman like yourself would have never married him otherwise.

It's a shame when people go a'changing, isn't it?

I guess I grew up in a "mixed" household. My dad is very laid back and rarely raised his voice at my brothers and I. However, he could lecture you when he was mad for hours and hours and hours. My mom would just yell for a few minutes and get it over with. I secretly preferred getting in trouble with my mom.

I've grown up to be a non-yeller. The only time I ever yelled at my ex was the day we were finishing up moving out of the home we shared. Laurie, I understand having to yell to get your ex to really hear what you were trying to say and respond to you, I just didn't have the guts to do it with mine. It's funny that you regret yelling at yours and I regret not yelling a little now and then. Maybe when it's not working between two people it doesn't really matter in the end if you've yelled or not?

Yelling can also show frustration, like a over-stimuilated cat. They didn't mean to bite as you tickled them, and they feel awful afterward. Yes I yell, and am working to fix it, but progress is slow, and for that I apologize. I really do love my wife, I just hope she realizes that my raised voice is due to me being less than the man she deserves, and has nothing to do with her. I really do love her!

Fleurtai, I do think that every story has two sides, and I was horribly flawed in our relationship and while I can't fix all the things he did, I can try to see why I am the way I am and make what changes I need to so I don't repeat that situation.

The first little bit of our relationship was lovely. Then when we got married, something happened. It started going bad early on, but I was tenacious and determined to fix things, do anything, make it better. Sometimes I think he got as... bad... as he did in an attempt to make me leave him. Finally he gave up and left me because I just wouldn't give up on our marriage.

I didn't see all that until much later of course. "Much later" being kind of like, maybe a month ago.

I live in a neighborhood with close-packed houses too. Yesterday morning I was on the can when I heard the lady behind me, probably 10 feet away, watering thte flowers on her deck. I decided to wait before flushing -- my window was open. :)

My dad always yelled at us, and it terrified me. That's why I hate yellers, even though I lose my temper sometimes and yell just like he did/does.

I grew up with neighbors like that in Garden Grove, CA, only the backs of our yards were on a narrow alley. My parents called them the . . . I apologize in advance . . . gypsies. Now don't you all go off on me, it wasn't my slur, it was my parents', and they're both long dead. These neighbors were very like "the garage people" mentioned above. They had many kids; some lived in the house, some in the garage and some they forced to live in a truckless camper in their driveway which was on the alley. They peed in the alley. We had huge yards but you could hear them in any part of our house (with windows closed) every weekend night and sometimes during the week. One day I went out the gate to the alley to take out trash and one of their little kids was setting our fence on fire. I put it out and talked to him and gave him my Junior Fireman pin. Later, when he got older, he relinquished the Junior Fireman idea, and decided to smoke in the alley. Eventually he really did set our fence on fire. And then the garage roof, etc. We all knew who did it, but never reported him. That's more than 25 years ago. But I'm still so glad not to hear those noises all night long or worry about my parents' house catching fire.

Our house was always very reserved and quiet. No yelling. No unfair fighting. I found I was scared of people who lost control that way, like you I thought they must be ready to fly apart.

My former husband would go completely silent during a discussion. Zip. For half/hours at a time. I gave up.

When I began my single life again, I found that other vocal extreme in that I became a yeller. But I know now it was in response to men who were fond of pushing the limit of emotional endurance. And it can mean that one is ready to fly apart. And it is very scary.

So you are right on the money, Laurie. I love the wisdom that flows from your brain to your fingertips to my lit screen. Thank you.

Which is worse, do you think, the shrieking or the walking-on-eggshells with a side order of snide cutting remarks? I truly don't know, but yelling scares me. Sarcasm I can deal with.

As a former Drill Sgt I am a TRAINED yeller.
Really though. After a bit, yelling is counter-productive.

OK...I give up ...what's packed in foil between the cold cokes and the glazed ham????

I, too, feel bad for the kids. I was raised by a yeller (Dad, not Mom), and I don't think it's so much a matter of the frustration being too much to handle. It's more that the person has never learned the proper ways to express that frustration. You can scold and discipline without yelling. Getting all hysterical doesn't really work. I know, because I've had tendencies toward the yelling (because that's how I was raised, and it's all I ever knew). I always cried after doing it, though, and I felt like the worst mother. So, I read some parenting books for help and found new ways of communicating. It really is much more effective (not to mention more pleasant for the family and any neighbors within earshot).

I yelled at pao in the middle of the night last week when it was hot and humid and I was extremely tired after nights and nights of it being hot and humid and not being able to sleep. He keep talking to me when I was trying to sleep but I can report that I haven't cut him up and put him in the refrigerator yet.

It took quite a lot for me to get to that stage so I can't imagine what is going on in your neighbour's head - things must be really bad for her.

Lawd have mercy, if I didn't yell sometimes, I'd kill people. My SO and kids know if I've reached the point of yelling to get my point across, they better skeedadalle and lay low for little while.

I live in an apartment. My neighbours yell ALL. THE. TIME. Seriously. I don't know when they even sleep! (luckily I get to sleep because my room's up in a gable, but my flatmates who sleep downstairs right next to the yellers often don't get to sleep until they've been downstairs and leaned on the neighbours' buzzer for a while)

The cokes are the ones in the little glass bottles, right?

As far as the yelling goes, I have found that I am less likely to do it if I give myself a couple of minutes of processing before I open my mouth. When I yell, all that comes out is pure emotion. If I stop and think, then I am able to say in rational manner why I am upset.

Sometimes the yelling is very effective though -- like in the classroom. If I yell at students, then they know they have crossed that line because it really isn't me. All it takes is once because after that, they heed my warnings.

Boy, that brings back some memories! I have a neighbor behind me who's sons were just about the same age as mine...he used to yell awful obscenities at them everyone could make out! The boys are all grown up now and left home...you never see them visit these days! I personally would hate to have that legacy! But...to be truthful...I used to yell at my ex-husband, the lazy alcoholic he still is could really bring on the frustration. But I never had any intentions of putting him by the coke bottles...I really didn't want the 'youknowwhat' in the house!

I never yelled at my ex-husband. No matter what he did. I wish I had.

By the way Laurie, have you seen this?

http://truewifeconfessions.blogspot.com

I'm "over it" too, but I still find this site very cathartic.

I think the man upstairs is trying to steer me in some direction in life for I have always lived next to yellers. When I was single living in a duplex in a small suburb the other half of the duplex was shared with Steve and F'ing Jade (I have come now to believe that F'ing Jade was her god given name since I never heard the Jade without the F'ing) and they fought constantly. There was one night where she screamed for the cops and apparently stabbed him with scissors (and yet they remained together!). I had to call the cops at least 3 times a month. Sometimes the yelling got so bad (we were in a duplex! I can hear them walking up and down the steps. the bathrooms were back to back with only the back of the medicine cabinet to seperate us) that I couldn't take it anymore. I hauled my stereo into the bathroom, perched it on sink, turned it all the way up, and played U2's "With or Without You" for 3 hours.
Some yellers don't know that you can hear them, and in whatever way you tell them, I find that people need to be reminded that walls don't all block sound.

Just de-cloaking to say that I really enjoy your writing. I think your style is unique and compelling. Perhaps you should write novels or short stories - between your style and your understanding of relationships (and yes, I think you understand them very well) - I think you'd have a devoted fanbase. I would be among the throng. PS - If you already have published work, please forgive my ignorance and direct me to a place where I can purchase.

Once again, beautifully written post. I usually lurk so this is something I want to reassure you about. BTW, ignore my grammar. As far as the yellers are concerned....some are just carriers. I have known more people than I care to admit who, for some reason or another, felt there were only two ranges of emotion, up and down. The up range was conveyed with everyday reactions and the down conveyed with yelling and crying. Quite often, the down side represented nothing more than a mildly bad day. I guess what I'm trying to say is that, once again, it all depends.

There are some people who don't listen to you unless you scream.

what/where is that article you mention in this post? the one about saving your worst behavior for those closest to you? i would like to read it. and then send it to my ex. yes, that is what i will do.

ps love love LOVE your blog.

Interesting..I see a situation all the time that when the people you are related too or live or married too are kinder / nicer to the waitress or watier and more polite, then it is a true sign of things are over. I could go on and on with so many details but not required.

Thank you Laurie, once again, for gently touching on a spot that is surely sore in most of our lives.

I remember having had it, just had it up to there, with my two little ones' bickering in the car one morning. At a stop light, I just let it all out. Yelled and yelled. After I vented, I heard the silence in the car and felt so, so bad.

I apologized to my children but had no way to apologize to those in the cars around me.

I know a woman with 3 little girls who does nothing but yell at them, all the time. She never talks with them, or explains things in a rational tone that kids might understand. She yells, all the time.

I wonder why she does it. Has she just gotten to a point in her life where she can't handle it anymore? Maybe some people are yellers by nature. It is the way they are wired, and they can't help it.

I'm with you. I try so hard to treat my daughter and husband with the utmost care and respect. Everyone slips some times, but for the most part, they are the two people I love the most in this world, and it would kill me to know that I hurt either one of them.

I'm a yeller, and I hate it. I know exactly what you mean about feeling untethered, unglued. There's almost a hangover from it, when you realize what has come out of your mouth, and nothing you can do can shove those words back in there. I'm in a situation now, where my yelling, the reactions to it, may have ruined the relationship I'm currently in, so I will join you in your vow to treat those I love BETTER than I treat anyone else.

My ex used to yell. She wouldn't say boo about any problem, large or small, until it had her good and hot, and then she's let loose. The sheer power of her rants had the effect of paralyzing everyone in the house. Then, paralyzed, no one responded in any meaningful way for just long enough for the rant to kick into high gear. And what I think is, though I'm probably no picnic to live with (from time to time), she wasn't really ranting at us. She was angry at her past and herself and her own feelings of being locked up. But as The Eagles pointed out, she had the key.

I don't yell, much. I'm a runner. I'm out.

You know what? I think that 99% of women contain within them the ability to be heard from a kilometre away. Heck us Aussie women know how to yell. I hate being like that. I am not often like that. But I can say that it is the thing I hate most about myself.
I want my neighbours to hear laughter too!
Mia

I come from a family of yellers and it's not always fighting. More often than not it's "Why walk the 30 feet to the garage when dad can plainly hear me from here?" for a call to dinner.

But it can be fighting. And when you're screaming so loud that your throat feels like it's been shredded and your eyes burn with unshed frustration and you just want To Be Heard.

I came from a family where my parents never ever yelled at each other, but once in awhile they yelled at us when we being typical, misbehaving, fighting kids, and during those times their yelling was warranted and well deserved. But I don't remember my parents fighting, raising their voices or even arguing with each other, EVER. If they had disagreements, they kept them very quiet and behind closed doors, or else it was a more playful banter in front of us. That's a real blessing, I suppose.

I had a couple friends who had parents who screamed all the time, and it was always very unnerving, and I couldn't wait to get home after spending the night at the friend's house. I know this is normal for a lot of people, but I just don't think it's a good way to raise kids and have a family.

So many things to comment on, where to begin?

I live in an area of town called Sunnyside, so your comment made me laugh. It's anything but tony. It's rather old in fact, full of families butted up next to each other, kinda like where you live. My grocery store staffs security guards.

I grew up in a house of quiet. There was no raising of the voices. Just the silent treatment between my parents. My mother remarried when I was 18. He's a yeller and also a loud talker. He's a big guy so I guess that's to be expected but also unexpected having grown up with noise no louder than my coveted stereo at volume 3.

But then I got married and let loose the rage. I read the same article you did and am not surprised. Is it because we expect our families and spouses to put up with much more than we would expect strangers to? I just know that the two times I unleased on my now ex husband, I shook uncontrollably because there was something I just couldn't put my finger on... something was off... he was lying.

I tense up when I hear my neighbors making loud noises. And I turn the TV down because I regret the one time I didn't call the police on the alcoholic parents across the street in my old neighborhood.

Sometimes, yelling happens. I think it happens when we feel invisible. I hate it when I fall prey; it makes me ashamed. When I do yell, I always end up with the image from Horton Hears a Who, where I become the dust speck that is held precariously close to being dropped into a pot of boiling water, and if I don't make my voice heard… I'm gonna be soup

Usually I just lurk but I had to post a comment. Something I have never done! I am a yeller. It started when my ex was having an affair and I knew and he didn't know that I knew. I try not to yell at my kids because if you are yelling that means no one is listening. But it can also be therapeutic. Silence can be like an obsenity and yelling is such a wonderful release. Especially when directed at ex-spouses who seem to be possessed by the devil.

I am sure my neighbors could write for days and days about my yelling.

The minute I knew my last relationship was over, was the minute I yelled like that. I'd gone out to a party one night, (after my ex told me he didn't want me to join him and his friends for karaoke) and had a wonderful time, stayed up too late, and the next morning woke up to him demanding I make him breakfast. I said no, but after he persisted, I blew a fuse. the house shook. I had never, ever yelled like that before. I hope i will never yell like that again. My mother was a screamer, and I work every day never to be one. Every day, I remind myself how damaging it is. Thanks for your perspective. I heart your blog, it makes me feel alright about myself.

I was a yeller in my marriage, because I just wanted him to listen and hear what I was saying. That was early on. ANd I really worked on calming down and letting the anger go and trying to not let it get to that point. Men who get silent and ignore you when you want to say something are the worst. If they would just listen and let you get it out, then you could skip the yelling, and move on, but nooooo.

I live in an urban area where you can hear pretty much everything and I am married a yeller-in-recovery. I come from a family of silent seethers. So imagine my horror - yelling and listening neighbors. Can I just say, is so nice to know that our neighbors don't hear hollering these days. And so great to have figured out a way to deal with things in a manner that is neither seething nor yelling. I will say- yelling was not just reserved for those close to home - nor was my seething.

A few years back, I had an upstairs neighbor who was constantly yelling at her kids. "I wish you had never been born," and other assorted pleasantries. She was drunk most of the time. We kept calling CPS to no avail.

The neighbors were all pleased one day, however, when this loving mother was led away in handcuffs. Couldn't have happened to a nicer person.

Laurie, you're a gem. You really know how to hit the nail on the head.

I will tell you one thing that will keep you from yelling in your house...
Finding out your next door neighbors have a baby monitor with the same channel as yours and can hear anything said (or yelled) within a couple of rooms from that monitor. Oops. They, on the other hand, do all their yelling and fighting on the front lawn. Pass the popcorn.

Here's how it goes at chez Bliss...

(Bliss who is disabled and can't climbs stairs spots DH in the kitchen (which is up some stairs from the family room...)

Bliss: Hi Honey, would you bring me a soda please?

DH: Huh?

Bliss: (said a little louder) I Said, Would You Bring Me A Soda Please.

DH: What?

Bliss: (yelling) WOULD YOU BRING ME SOMETHING TO DRINK PLEASE?!

DH: WHY ARE YOU YELLING AT ME?

Bliss (said under her breath) Because you are deaf old man.

DH: I heard that!

(then we both bust up laughing)

Yelling is a constant source of discomfort in my marriage. My husband thinks yelling (not at me, just in general)and slamming doors is okay to blow off steam. Big emotional outbursts like that just freak me out and often make me cry. I think it's probably better than walking on eggshells and fielding snide remarks, but there's something in me that hears yelling and thinks "danger!"
I'm sorry you have to hear those neighbors. I couldn't take it.

I just read an article in the August issue of the Oprah magazine. It was called 'The Kindness of Strangers, The Rudeness of Spouses'...why we treat everyone better than our mates. It's so amazingly true. I left it out for my husband to read and he actually enjoyed it! Great article that everyone should be required to read!

My stomach always knots up instantly when I hear people shouting at their kids or at one another.

I think I used to yell at my insignificant other because I just simply wasn't being heard. And, it made me feel like I was in control when it was just the opposite. I too, have a neighbor that yells (screams, really) at her children. Sometimes I sit on my deck at night when she can't see me, and watch to make sure the children are alright. I haven't seen any signs of abuse (not physical, anyway) but I keep an eye on the situation. People yell so much more now than when I was growing up in the '50's! I don't like it.

Mostly we're a laughing household. However I sometimes catch myself not so much yelling, but definitely using a loud voice. It ain't pretty and then I think, where's the grown-up here?! Yikes.

You are definitely right about yelling at the ones you love - even if you never yell at other times. I find myself doing this too. I used to tell my mom I only yell at her because I loved her. I know that sounds strange - but I know she will always love me - no matter what. So I felt comfortable showing my true emotions. I'm not saying it's a good thing - but it's definitely true.

-Jody

I have been a yeller and have been trying hard to change that. My father gets really irritated with me when I yell at my son and says that I am like his mother, who yelled all the time. I never heard my dad say anything nice about her --I don't want my son to remember me like that. But sometimes it is so hard when he doesn't listen until you yell.

My husband is the non-communicator. He doesn't yell, he doesn't talk. It's not really the silent treatment..he just has nothing to say.

Haj asked:
>

Walt Disney.

Would ya write a book already?!!! Man, you're good.

Ah, you're probably all yelling, "WHAT DID HAJ ASK???"

This:

OK...I give up ...what's packed in foil between the cold cokes and the glazed ham????

And I answer

WALT DISNEY.

He yelled sometimes, I'm sure.

Annie, I'm sorry, but I don't get the Walt Disney tie-in (color me stupid). Anyway, anyone knows you gotta HIDE the bodies, not put them in the fridge, or else make it look like a convincing accident!
What was that line again, something like I still miss my ex, but my aim is getting better?

I read your blog almost daily; very seldom do I comment but I feel that once in a while I must, just to let you know I'm here... I love your wit and your great style.

As for yelling... I used to be a "yeller" I didn't like it, I couldn't control it. Sometimes I didn't even know it. I would just get so overwhelmed with what ever emotional outburst that I was having at the moment that it would just all come pouring out of me in that loud, insane tone reserved only for the most out of control. Then it stopped. Yep, just like that. I stopped yelling. I don't know how it stopped, or why or not even really when. But at some point I just stopped yelling. And I'm not entirely sure this is better.

Now when my husband says something that hurts me or frustrates me, I just look at him in quiet shock. In seconds, he is off on another topic, his snide remark forgotten by him, leaving me to hurt in silence. No, I don't yell any more. Nor do I speak... I haven't had an arguement, fair or not fair with my husband in years... not that we agree on everything, (so that there is no reason for arguements) Just that I never say anything when I disagree.

"Silence is Golden" .... except in silence, we suffer the pain that we do not share...

But all that being said, I really would not want to go back to being a "yeller" no, way!

So....you are referring to cryogenic storage?
Doesn't that have to be in a freezer?
A really cooooold freezer? I think the Cokes (in glass naturally) would burst. And the ham would be useless for sandwiches.
I thought she was hiding the body in the fridge.
(remind me NOT to attend the next BBQ at Chez spinster)
Tell us what you meant Laurie won Kenobi...you're our only hope......

I hear this woman yelling and I know she's right there, or maybe I'm just imagining it because I'm not from a yelling family so when it comes out loud and hard you suspect there is a nervous breakdown just under the surface, and maybe the bodies will end up stored in the fridge between the cold cokes and the glazed ham for dinner.

OK here it is. Guess I had to read it [carefully]the second time. My thats dark Laurie. AND an awfully long sentence.
Just sayin is all.

Great post as always, sweetie.

In my past relationship, I was the yeller. I remember all too well that helpless feeling you are describing. Even in this heat, it sends chills down my skin. I don't ever want to be that person again.

Now, I am in a wonderful relationship with a patient, loving man who has an ex-wife (and the mother of his 13 year old son and 16 year old daughter) who is a very abusive screamer. Living with his "ex" in my life helps me to remember the person I want to be, and gives me a chance to help him and his children learn how to disagree without being hurtful.

I agree that we can be the most evil to those we love the most. Thanks also, to you, for reminding us and helping all of us not be that person. And to understand those who still are in that frustrating, desperate place. Just yesterday, I counseled his son that we need to remember "Everyone has their own story."

Lots of luv to you and the kitties, esp. the almighty Sobakowa.

"But if my neighbors ever overhear me making noise, I want them to be hearing my laugh or my friends cutting up or middle-of-the-night sounds, and never, ever the yelling."
That is such a great attitude to have. I have made an effort to adopt that attitude as well. When I went through my divorce, I was so stressed out, and I yelled. A lot. One time I yelled at the kids to hurry up and get out the door, and the neighbors just happened to be having a family get together in their front yard. They ALL turned and looked at me. I felt like such a horrible horrible person. Since then, I've really made a conscious effort to not yell. I will on occasion, but nothing like I used to. And, it's not even so much what my neighbors will think of me--it's what my kids would think.

In our old neighborhood the next-door neighbors were not more than 10 feet away, and did they yell. Nonstop, morning to night, in Russian. Thinking that maybe they would quiet down a bit if they thought I understood them, one morning when Russian Mom and I were getting our papers off the sidewalk at the same time I looked over and said "Good morning" in Russian, and she looked quite startled but replied in kind. It made no difference to the volume, however. As we got to know them better, though, we discovered that they were warm, loving parents and very hard workers (the kids as well as the parents); they were just naturally operatic. They were also a bit stressed out as both mom and dad were working long hours trying to get businesses off the ground, but mostly they just lived out loud. Very loud.

Your neighbor may also be a basically loud person, or she may in fact be close to the edge. Do you dare to take her a coffee cake or something as a gesture of support and neighborliness?

I would also like to read that article you mentioned. I'm not a yeller, but my fiance is. I'm always so taken aback when he gets that loud, like I can't hear him or I don't know he's pissed unless he's yelling. I tell him he's saying things that can't be unsaid, and yelling them makes it worse. He's used to yelling, cuz he was with a "yeller" before. I'm not sure I can break him of it, so I'd at least like to read that article and see if I'm doing anything to provoke it.

The article is the one someone mentioned -- in August's "O" Oprah magazine.

Lucia, I don't live in the sort of city where it's OK to let on that you hear the neighbors (unless you're calling the police on them). It's not like that out here, or at least not in my neighborhood. Besides, they live the next street over, i never see them, only hear them.

The yelling scares me when it is definitely directed at the kids, especially when things are said about I wish you were never born. Adults can get away from it where children cannot, they just seem to hunker down and shy away, like a puppy that just peed on the carpet and knows he did something wrong. How sad. But how far does it go? What I mean is when does that person start taking her frustration out on the kids other than the yelling, like hitting or doing other things? I am not meaning like a spanking, more like a full force beat the tar out of someone, and yes usually it happens to people who they are closest to and may be that won't tell anyone, little do they know that the neighbors and may be the people across town can hear them. That is why yelling scares me. I've never been abused, yelled at of course but mostly for disipline purposes obviously. I have yelled at my children also but it NEVER crossed my mind to tell them that I wish they were never born. Sure sometimes they make life harder than what it could be without them, no bottles, no diapers, no formula that sort of thing but what in the world were they thinking when they got pregnant in the first place? Just makes me wonder, that's all.

That's kinda what I figured, Laurie. I wasn't thinking that you would go over there and say "hi, here's a coffee cake, I've noticed you guys fight an awful lot" -- just that if there were a natural way for you to chat/hand cakes back and forth over the back fence you might be able to get, well, neighborly. Sounds like that isn't in the cards, though. In my old neighborhood there were some people you could chat with and some you stayed away from. (I eventually ended up collecting the Russian family's daughter from after-school day care when her mom had to work late. They were a definite improvement over the previous tenants, who were very quietly always telling us the Good News.)

Laurie, we've all been there.

Here is the weird thing about your post...my kid has been driving me NUTS all day. She slept with me, which meant that she did not sleep, and then when she finally did sleep she woke up earlier than the birds, which is never a good thing. As a result, she was/has been cranky the whole morning...as was I. Cut to the chase....she made me so angry but only a few minutes ago that I yelled. YELLED. My patience is gone, at its ebb...so, I sent her to bed, kicking and screaming. And MAN do I feel bad for yelling. My mother was a yeller and would say not so pleasant things in her rage and I vowed I never to be like her when I became a mother. Sometimes when I lose my patience with my child, a child I love so dearly, I feel the embodiment of the angry part of my mother that I vowed never to be. I could vow to say that I will never yell...but I am human and have faults and failings. I am a doing the best I can...and some days my patience is long...and some days I find myself yelling...and some days, the yelling works just as good as a kiss, which in this house there are many. Much more than yelling.

i grew up in a yelling house. my mother's regular tone of voice is yelling and i hated grewing up in that house. i had a lot of anxiety as a kid and now as an adult i realize how much calmer i am when she's not around. that's not to say that i'm not a yeller myself. i am. but you have to push me pretty far for me to go that way. i think that's one reason why i don't have kids though. i know i'd be a yelling mother. and i just don't want to do that to a kid.

I hate how nosy my neighbors are, but at least they're quiet.

Isn't it sad that we think about not yelling because we don't want the neighbors to hear and judge, and not because it's harsh and negative? (I'm including myself in that "we".) And it's so true that family is often dead last when it comes to the lineup of who is treated pleasantly! I've been on the receiving end of that, and it was a real learning experience. I try to at least treat my family as well as my friends, and not save whatever energy is leftover. It's not easy, though.

Mostly, in my growing up, things were bottled up until they exploded. I was the shrill one as a teen (how embarassing to think of that) and there were more than one screaming fights between brother and I, but I think it was because it was either/or - swallow it or scream.

I had neighbours like that. They were newly arrived in Canada, and things were not going well for them, I think. Young couple with grown child -- but she did have a sharp skreeching voice! And she used it alot -- not sure on who, the husband or son, but it cut through our walls with no trouble. This happened on quite a regular basis.

One night, she was at her sharpest and highest pitch. I was really worried, for this time, I could hear a male voice yelling back. I thought the police should be called but not one to get involved, I pretended not to notice. But suddenly, there were the police, got it calmed down, the resmanager too, and in a month or so, they had moved out.

I wonder where they went, and whatever happened to them. And what leads them to be in such a state in the first place. Luckily, I live alone! haha

I hated to yell at my boys when they were younger, so I would ask them, "Do you want to listen to me, or do you want to listen to Psychomom?" Psychomom came out a few times and the boys learned it might be better to listen to regular mom. She softened over the years as the boys grew into wonderful young men. Now she is my alter ego and I know she was there to help us get through the rough times.

Funny you should mention that about the way we treat our families as opposed to how we treat complete strangers.
I heard that once. Probably a year ago. My son was 3 at the time and was always under my feet.. it would get SO frustrating.. and I would say "MOVE!" when he got in my way.. and then I heard that and I thought about it .. and I realized that I treat my son worse then I would treat someone on the street!

It amazed me!

I'm much more aware of my actions now.. now I just yell "MOVE!" at strangers and say "Excuse me, please!" to my son..

Ha.
I'm going to blog about this. Thank you.

Wow, Laurie you hit the nail on the head with the comment about how we save our worst behavior for our family and loved ones. This is so true. I think this is because we feel safe with them and know what their reaction would be. With a neighbor, coworker or stranger this is not always the case. It might be human nature to defend oneself and letting loose on family is safer than on a stranger.

I too used to yell sometimes. Not really loud yelling but enough to get attention. It is a last resort of frustration when nothing else works. Is it what I really want to do? No. I don't yell so much anymore. I figure that my health, stress level and life is not worth that. People also learn behaviors from their parents. My Dad was a yeller. He yelled at my sister and I but never at my Mother. He would yell out of frustration. I think he chose to yell at us instead of my Mom because he knew that we would not yell back but my Mother would have. I will certainly think about my words and tone of voice more carefully in the future. You're right about not wanting the neighbors to hear screaming and yelling. People don't think very highly of those sorts of neighbors.